Hornby Elite Wiring to a large Layout & Boosters Tell me more MAKES, MODELS, WIRING?

[wapples]

Hi Chaps & Chappettes

First may I refer you to:

https://uk.hornby.com/community/forum/powering-a-large-layout-with-elite?ccm_paging_p=1&ccm_order_by=&ccm_order_by_direction=

Yes I DO CHECK before I post and this is a Suitably impressive post that answered my question straight from the get go BUT there is a link or two within it that has expired and Iam looking for the 'HORNBY Answer' so what better place to start than the land of Red & Gold.

So yes those of you following my layout will know I have U shaped dog bone two line configuration that we could break up into X3 10 Meter Sections (5m Up 5m Down)

Ok never planning on running at most X4 locos at any one time mostly 1-2 & I would not change my Hornby Elite for anything it has the simplicity & colour that I simply ADORE!

However unlike LENZ, ROCO, DIGITRAX etc the available plug and play add ons are somewhat limited. Thats ok i dont think i really need them. Point work is seperate and done through the DCC Concepts Alpha system and runs in its own little world. Im not a fan of sifting through multiple menus and number sequences to do something simple like toot the trains horn LOL (im not really into the sound Locos)

Transgressing.

My QUESTION is BOOSTERS. Tell me more what are these boosters people add to the ELITE unit? What brand, make and or wiring required for them?

I would like to know more while I don't need it, i like the flexibility of leveraging the power distribution so everything does not come to a halt IF there is a problem. As the track laying continues there are just pairs of droppers dangling down the master Bus feed etc has not been laid so now is the perfect time to allow for more magic to happen. I did do a video where I cover Wiring but thats taking a step back talking about power facilities in respect to GPO (general power outlets) in your premises

[NOTE: ALWAYS USE A LICENSED ELECTRICIAN]

https://youtu.be/KQtMV6IMylI

All advice warmly received, stay safe

OP

[96RAF]

Taking your questions one at a time...

Boosters - any make booster that is NMRA compliant, i.e. has been designed to work with DCC can be used with your Elite, which can use several connection methods.

But first let us get straight how a booster works. It has its own power supply which it applies to a dedicated power district isolated from any other power district. You can have as many districts as you think you need, each with its own booster. The booster ‘listens’ to the Elite DCC signal and passes it on to its own power district. This is the only common connection between districts, so you can see you need to wire your bus as if they were separate layouts, remembering also to use IRJs in the track at the same district break locations.

Wiring - as stated each power district has its own bus connected to and powered by its own booster, except district 0 which is connected to the Elite.

The DCC signal can be passed from the Elite in two main ways, using the Expressnet port on the Elite to the same port on the Hornby booster (not in current production but may be available in the shops) or by a simple pair of feeder wires from the Elite BOOST terminals to the booster IN terminals. This boost output is low potential repeater signal and is amplified by the booster module for use in district 1, 2, etc.

WARNING - never connect the BOOST terminals to any powered track or you will damage the Elite beyond repair. It is a signal repeater not an extra oomph output.

If you download the Hornby R8239 booster manual you will see better what I am describing.

https://support.hornby.com/hc/en-gb/article_attachments/360015937739/R8239-DCC-Booster-English-Only.pdf

[rpjallan]

If you aren’t going to be running more than 4 locos at a time, are not using sound locos & are not using your DCC power to operate your points, I don’t think you will come close to needing a booster. What I would be concentrating on is making sure your wiring is up to scratch.

[Yelrow]

To use a posting from the Australian Fisherman, unless you have a layout the size of a large double garage, you do NOT need a Booster. Works for me.

[wapples]

Being an Aussie and being a Fisherman Growing up AND being the fact it was suppose to be a double CAR HOLD when building the house that all CHECKS OUT!

IRJ i have some, because PECO advised me that i may need it for one crossing i tested with and without and honestly we will triple check before ballasting with all locos but so far NOPE not needed

All track-work so far is immaculate, soild with feeders Soldered under the track every 60cm and or at every join on the points.

4 Locos yeah Honestly we could say 6 with a couple in a siding and say two have Sound and or lights but honestly NO. If there is a sound or light with coaches as a feature then it will fly solo with another loco parked by the station. Even with the fiddle-yard below its mostly to store coaches and the locos are removed off the layout and stored accordingly. The layout is not being used every day and or every week although between you and me it would be awesome if it did.

Yes I still have time to add the IRJ into the 3 sections and split it up but honestly i don't think i will have to do it after reading it all. If HORNBY are not doing a Power Booster Off the shelf to plug & play with the... What are they RJ -11 Plugs? Then i wont stress. I never wanted to go 'PRO' with a serious DCC system as the Hornby is simple & inviting.

8239

https://www.metrohobbies.com.au/products/hornby-dcc-power-signal-booster

yes I guess that would have been the thing to do and Iam sure I can find some on eBay or similar but it looks as though its just overkill plus the layout is not going to experience any substantial expansion the cabinetwork is complete and really its just a two line layout that is ..... 24M in total so its evenly fed and minimal complications ( so I hope only 12 points 5 Important ones the rest rather ornamental for seasonal use)

Marvellous input from you all as well just out of curiosity. What Brand would you recommend knowing the situation I presented you with ( SHOULD ) you choose to go down that avenue?

Since Im say 2/3 of the way through track laying if i can get the Hornby Booster I could easily split the layout 50/50 and run a booster just to leverage for the future at its simplest it would only be 8 IRJ on a section and it would all be done. Ill keep researching but i have no issues with that and its no big deal.

Y'all the best!

OP

[96RAF]

My layout is a folded eight twin track plus sidings in a single garage - say 4m x 3m driven by a single bus for track and a separate bus for accessories like points and signals. I have an R8239 in a drawer, bought hut never used as it wasn’t required.

Normally four locos running with up to a dozen more standing in sidings eating current, all sound equipped.

The Elite Xpressnet is an RJ12 plug but the cable is 6-wire flat section Hornby special as usual, but easy enough to make your own, however that is not the best connection method due to cross talk. Twin wire cables are a more reliable method - e.g. figure 4 in the Hornby booster manual quoted.

[Fishmanoz]

Don’t have any info on brands outside of the Hornby discontinued product. And yes, John (Yelrow) reports me correctly you don’t need one unless your layout takes up both car spaces in the double garage and is running 5 plus locos at the same time.

My advice if you want belt and braces - wire for but not with booster. That means IRJs between districts on the track (yes the booster will handle locos crossing the IRJs) and separate the power buses to each district by separating their wiring. But then connect the district buses to each other in parallel and connect both/all to your Elite track output. Continue to enjoy until you regularly have enough running at once that you get overloads on the Elite. Now and only now, purchase and fit booster to one of the power district as per Rob’s preferred wiring option.

[rpjallan]

Being an Aussie and being a Fisherman Growing up AND being the fact it was suppose to be a double CAR HOLD when building the house that all CHECKS OUT!

 

 

Where in Australia are you?

I'm Adelaide...

[wapples]

Yo Born & raised in Whyalla South Australia was in Adelaide studying 98-2004 and now live in Hervey Bay QLD if you went to the Model Railway show recently in Adelaide you would have seen my brother & father there representing Whyalla with there layout of Maree. While not there personal choice it was the cubs decision to represent something new but they manage the HUGE layout at the Maritime museum that Iam sure you have seen in Whyalla. Stay safe.

Being an Aussie and being a Fisherman Growing up AND being the fact it was suppose to be a double CAR HOLD when building the house that all CHECKS OUT!

Where in Australia are you?

I'm Adelaide...

 

 

[wapples]

I have a surplus brand new boxed DCC CONCEPTS Booster I dont suppouse that is much use it has the connections we need so I will leave it aside for the moment. Thought I would just mention that :)

[96RAF]

Don’t confuse system specific boosters that are side-band upgrades of the basic controller power supply for a single power district with power district signal amplifier and power boost modules like the Hornby one and other makes.

To differentiate - suitable modules are powered by a separate power supply to the main controller. They have in and out terminals for taking the prime signal from the rails or bus in district one and passing it to and powering the rails or bus in district 1 et seq. There may be additional signal passing methods such as the RJ12 Lenz Xpressnet used by Hornby, but in essence the data in - data out and separate power supply are the key indicators.

[rpjallan]

Yo Born & raised in Whyalla South Australia was in Adelaide studying 98-2004 and now live in Hervey Bay QLD if you went to the Model Railway show recently in Adelaide you would have seen my brother & father there representing Whyalla with there layout of Maree. While not there personal choice it was the cubs decision to represent something new but they manage the HUGE layout at the Maritime museum that Iam sure you have seen in Whyalla. Stay safe.

 

 

I was born in Sydney but I've been here over 30 years now. I was at the Adelaide Model Railway Show. I was operating the BRMA layout Wellingford and Bakewell Bridge which won both the Best In Show awards.

I have to say, I do enjoy some of the more country/outback SA layouts though...

[wapples]

That Layout they did of Maree was not the usual one they do but it was different currently being setup for the Whyalla Show as for this thread its ALL COOL i think i have it all sorted and NOW iam putting a video together on the DCC CONCEPTS Alpha Point Control system.

I was working on a N gauge layout one half featured Red hill through to Snow Town the other half Whyalla Steelworks to Iron Knob layout but the Whyalla museum has a flawless layout in HO and with official permission and gondolas from Genesee Wyoming they are on a real winner. But you are right from the roundhouse in Peterborough to the former round house in Port Augusta from the Coffepot on the Pichi Richi to the Cockle Train what is not to love about SA Railways. Next time your up this way take a ride on the Mary Ann in Marybrough home of the legendary Walkers Engineering that is still building locomotives to this day not to mention take a trip on the Mary Valley Rattler you will not be dissapointed Party on.

Yo Born & raised in Whyalla South Australia was in Adelaide studying 98-2004 and now live in Hervey Bay QLD if you went to the Model Railway show recently in Adelaide you would have seen my brother & father there representing Whyalla with there layout of Maree. While not there personal choice it was the cubs decision to represent something new but they manage the HUGE layout at the Maritime museum that Iam sure you have seen in Whyalla. Stay safe.

I was born in Sydney but I've been here over 30 years now. I was at the Adelaide Model Railway Show. I was operating the BRMA layout Wellingford and Bakewell Bridge which won both the Best In Show awards.

I have to say, I do enjoy some of the more country/outback SA layouts though...

 

 

[Fishmanoz]

I apologise in advance for being critical Wapples but … if “Anything is Possible”, might you avoid in future using the most confusing method for the blue button I’ve seen (putting your new content at the top of the quoted area rather than outside that area, meaning I had to read up and down previous posts to find your new content) and in fact avoid the blue button altogether and use the text box at the bottom of the page and the green Post Reply button for futures posts.

Apologies again but rant over, back to normal helpful transmission. One day, Hornby will accede to repeated requests and remove the blue button and so also remove all of the havoc it causes.

[RDS]

Moderator Comment

@Wapples

Further to the post from Fishmanoz above, please STOP using the Blue Button altogether.

You are making virtually impossible for members to see what new information, if any, you have added.

If you find you do need to quote a previous post by using the Blue Button, please scroll to the END of the previous post and insert 1 line space before you add your comment.

Thank you.

[Brew Man]

Or use 'Quoted Reply' via the three dots, top right of the post you are quoting.

[96RAF]

Once again we have requested Hornby to get rid of this pesky blue button.

[wapples]

I apologise in advance for being critical Wapples but … if “Anything is Possible”, might you avoid in future using the most confusing method for the blue button I’ve seen (putting your new content at the top of the quoted area rather than outside that area, meaning I had to read up and down previous posts to find your new content) and in fact avoid the blue button altogether and use the text box at the bottom of the page and the green Post Reply button for futures posts.

Apologies again but rant over, back to normal helpful transmission. One day, Hornby will accede to repeated requests and remove the blue button and so also remove all of the havoc it causes.

Fish & Chips My Apologies NO IDEA Iam rather hopeless with machines. I will refrain from pushing it further I even tried clicking on your profile to send you are personal message but I guess that is not possible. I tell you what i will ban myself for the next 3 months on this site just to wipe out the current conversations. Apologies to all I did not mean to stuff the entire thread up. It is not quite as functional as others i visit but I apologise & wish you all a blessed day. My latest video regarding the DCC Concepts Alpha digital points will go live early next month with hilarious consequences and the final vote on why boosters will not benefit my zany layout. Cheers stay safe.

OP

 

 

Mod note - your self report noted and ignored. You do not need to ban yourself nor refrain from posting. Your posts will be left as is as they are further evidence towards getting rid of the blue button. If you wish to quote from or edit a previous post simply refer to the options in the three-dot context menu to the right corner of every post or scroll down to the bottom of the page and reply in the clear. Folk will know what you are replying about.

Again please stick with the forum as your views and posts are as important as everyone else's.

[Brew Man]

I don't think there is any need to ban yourself from the forum. Just don't use the blue button joy

[RDS]

Moderator Note:

@wapples

There is absolutely no need to even think about banning yourself from the Forum and that is certainly not the intention of anyone, who mentions the Blue Button being used.

The Blue Button is a nuisance and confusing and we have been asking Hornby to remove it for (guess) at least 4 years.

There is a thread at the top of the General Discussion section named: Important Information for new Members Registering for the Forum, which may help.

Best Regards

[Fishmanoz]

Agree with all wapples, keep on posting using the green button. Posting don’t evaporate after 3 months either, once you press the button, it’s on the web forever, at least over 10 years in my case.