Should models have lights?

[M. Matthews]

Just a general question really. Obviously it’s down to the individual but I’m wondering for how many people is it a deal breaker if a model doesn’t have directional lighting?

By accident, I found my birthday present which is a Hornby Class 66. Most of my larger locos only get run on my clubs layout due to the tight curves on mine. Two of my most prized locos are a pair of Hornby GBRf class 73’s with a Network Rail test train as it’s something I work closely with in real life. However, when I took the train to the club, there was a couple of comments about them being railroad models and not having lights which made me feel a bit small. The club has a few exhibition layouts and one of them has a strict Lima ban!!

Is that a common attitude? I’d like to be able to go and take my new model but it is a bit off putting. Would you be offended by a Railroad / Lima model being run at an exhibition?

[atom3624]

Personally, if there's a Railroad and a Super Detail locomotive option, in diesel / 'modern image' format for which this comment is mainly applicable, I'll definitely try and get the Super Detail option locomotive - with directional lighting, no rubber tyres and where possible, double bogie traction options.

Some have generally priced themselves out of the market, but you can still 'bag yourself a bargain' occasionally.

Al.

[96RAF]

Nothing to stop you fitting lights, several suppliers around but you can install your own for much less cost than a lighting kit.

I would be annoyed if I was in a club that held such strict views.

[dBerriff]

The hobby does, unfortunately, attract individuals who are incapable of understanding other people’s interests and points of view. I get as much pleasure from running 40-year old Kneller Hall as anything new. If you are interested in operations, automation or perhaps shunting puzzles then the modelling detail assumes a lower priority.

So no, I would not be offended. Their loss, not yours.

[ColinB]

They are your locos so you can do what you want. I must admit I like my locos to have lights but adding lights to a Hornby class 73 is virtually impossible. I have about 4 that were originally Lima models which I updated with the latest Hornby chassis and bogies. You can put a light behind the headcode but even then you get a lot of bleed even when you paint the inside matt black. All mine don't have lights, it was too difficult and I did try. Even one of my early Bachmann class 37s doesn't have lights, again when I looked to add them it was virtually impossible as where they would normally go is in the same place as the fitting for the body. Most of the newer models have lights but you pay a premium for them.

[threelink]

It's a matter of personal preference, isn't it? I would be wary of joining a club where such blinkered an attitude exists. For myself, as a steam era modeller, lighting is scarcely an issue - paraffin lamps were pretty dim unless you lined up precisely with the bullseye lens and gas lights not much brighter. I find a lot of model lights far too bright to be realistic but if any modeller wants them who am I to gainsay or criticise. This is a broad church with room for all. Do your own thing - your railway, your rules.

[Fazy]

lights are a nice touch but they do add cost to a model, and if your on a budget or just unwilling to spend loads for a model with lights. Absolutely nothing wrong with a railroad model. You could add lights yourself. It’s a lot easier than you might think. It probably easier to buy a kit for the first time the good thing with kits are the hard part is done. You drill out the lights on the model and the light bord fits inside the locomotives and the leds push into the holes you’ve drilled. You follow the instructions to wire them up.

ExpressModels is a good website to have a nose. Prices are around the £20-£25 for a diesel. I’ve done all my class 20s. You’ll also end up with a unique model which isn’t available out of a box. Which is one in the eye for those judgmental modellers.

[Rallymatt]

Two parts here, lights make everything better (in my world) so I try and add them to buildings and rolling stock, if locos have them great but if they don’t it’s not a deal breaker, particularly in TT:120.

The attitude towards modellers who have Lima or less expensive models, or a different scale and all that tosh. These views while masking as some elite view to propel the hobby forwards by adopting perfection are single handedly responsible for the demise in railway modelling. Sadly this unpleasant trait is creeping across social media like a cancer being fuelled by sad bitter losers who don’t understand the joy of ‘playing trains’ Those losers should not be allowed to represent our hobby

[Topcat1707821625]

@MM

Don't worry what other people think or say. Many of my models are from the 1990s and I get great enjoyment from them. None of them have lights at present though it is something I shall work towards.

I once visited a local model railway club with a view to joining and they were very snobbish because I wasn't using DCC. Needless to say I didn't join.

[Rallymatt]

Top Cat, slightly off topic but the illumination of the TT:120 coaches was a tremendous success. Thanks for the heads up on the LED strip and battery spec.

[ellocoloco]

I must admit to liking headlights, taillights and number boards but plenty of my models don't have lights and I don't plan on retrofitting. Cablights and instrument panel lights, why! Other things I find pretty pointless are rotating fans and sprung buffers. I am happy with traction tyres, or without. I think you really need tyres for realistic haulage.

As to Railroad or Lima at an exhibition, no worry to me and I am reminded as to a comment on another forum by a member who was very happy to use simpler models at exhibitions. They tend to finish the day with the same amount of detail as they started!

With regards to not allowing Lima on one of your club layouts, remind them their axles are too short and etched grills etc aren't going to make their Accurascale/Bachmann/Dapol/etc models fundamentally more accurate. Life's too short to be petty about trains!

I have the Hornby 66 (Capt Tom version) which you got for your birthday and its a really smooth runner. I stuck a TTS chip in it and its great. The only OO model I have bought in the last 40 years. I also have an ESU Class 66 with sound, smoke, brake sparks, instrument panel & cab lighting, sprung buffers and a few others things. Its also great, but not any more fun! I also had to respray it to represent a UK loco.

Enjoy YOUR model. thumbsup

[ellocoloco]

I must admit to liking headlights, taillights and number boards but plenty of my models don't have lights and I don't plan on retrofitting. Cablights and instrument panel lights, why! Other things I find pretty pointless are rotating fans and sprung buffers. I am happy with traction tyres, or without. I think you really need tyres for realistic haulage.

As to Railroad or Lima at an exhibition, no worry to me and I am reminded as to a comment on another forum by a member who was very happy to use simpler models at exhibitions. They tend to finish the day with the same amount of detail as they started!

With regards to not allowing Lima on one of your club layouts, remind them their axles are too short and etched grills etc aren't going to make their Accurascale/Bachmann/Dapol/etc models fundamentally more accurate. Life's too short to be petty about trains!

I have the Hornby 66 (Capt Tom version) which you got for your birthday and its a really smooth runner. I stuck a TTS chip in it and its great. The only OO model I have bought in the last 40 years. I also have an ESU Class 66 with sound, smoke, brake sparks, instrument panel & cab lighting, sprung buffers and a few others things. Its also great, but not any more fun! I also had to respray it to represent a UK loco.

Enjoy YOUR model. thumbsup

[ntpntpntp]

Directional head and tail lighting in model locos has been around for many decades, depends on the brand and "quality level" you buy. It was considered a desirable feature and an improvement over a model without lights even if not prototypical in the strictest sense. Then DCC came along with the ability to have constant brightness lights even when stationary, followed by people wanting individual switching of the lights at each end (eg. turn off the loco tail lights when hauling a train) and simple directional lighting is now sneered at by some folk :) I often encounter people confused that their modern DCC fitted loco doesn't simply swap red/white at each end depending on direction like their old DC and earlier DCC locos do.

To be honest I don't generally notice the front or rear lights on my models, other than on DCC they are handy to confirm which way the loco is going to move :) When I acquire a second hand loco I check the lights are functional and replace bulbs/LEDs if necessary, but if the model has no lights it really doesn't bother me. I run mostly DC, but when running DCC I'm not bothered at all about individual control of headlights, tail lights, cab lights, marker lights etc.

I'm not a fan of coach lighting, I tend to disconnect it if a second-hand model comes with lights. It's nearly always far too bright, and unless a smoothing/storage circuit is fitted or the lights are battery powered there's too much flicker which destroys the effect.

[Topcat1707821625]

@Rallymatt

Glad you got your TT:120 coach lights working. I thought you would like the COB LED strips. Any photos of them anywhere?

[Aussie Fred]

Your train, YOUR rules.

[Rallymatt]

@TopCat, in TT:120 section of forum, page 2/3 now ‘Illuminated MK1s are here’ thread and there are some night time videos on YouTube/HighFell

In the end the composite coaches lost a toilet wall to accommodate the battery pack but it’s not even visible from outside. Popped a resistor in just to bring the light down a bit more and I’m very happy with the results. The led frequency on the strip is perfect for coach lighting 👍 after first test on a brake coach (it has the most space) I got it down the 20mins or so per coach start to finish. It’s worked out all in less than £4 per coach in parts 😁

[M. Matthews]

@Aussie Fred

Whilst I totally agree with your statement, in this case it’s not my layout so not my rule’s unfortunately.

I guess I’ve joined a club where people have money to burn that can afford their accurascale, cavalex and rapido models and I just can’t keep up. The layout is a very nice one though and I sort of understand their reasoning especially when at exhibitions. I just don’t believe the average exhibition goer is that bothered. I take time to service and weather my locos and I don’t believe the difference is that obvious.

Anyway, I did manage to sneak a cheap LED in there although it’s far to bright for my liking.

[atom3624]

As RAF mentioned earlier, there are aftermarket lighting kits available.

They do require a modicum of modelling skills to install adequately and a lot of care at times.

Al.

[Rallymatt]

MM, I am truly disappointed by the club you are part of, you are clearly trying to achieve the best you can with what you have, which is the very essence of the hobby. I think you could be a better modeller than your fellow club members, any fool can buy something

[Topcat1707821625]

@Rallymatt

The coach lighting looks great and you've put a tremendous amount of effort into the layout.

[Potterton]

Frankly, I am appalled that you were made to feel "a bit small" by other members of out fraternity. Not all of us have the knowledge, skills or, (too often), finances to achieve ultimate realism in our modelling, but we do our best and hopefully gain a sense of achievement, pleasure and satisfaction. Personally, I think it is deplorable for others to make you feel like this and they should be ashamed of themselves.

There was an interesting article in the March 2023 edition of the Railway Modeller. In the "Comment" section, (page 217), one Andrew J. Walker wrote about Nostalgia for old models which I thought was an excellent piece. (To be honest, he could have been writing about me; I even have the same models he does!) Personally, I find the older models and those fitted with traction tyres more efficient and more reliable than the modern super-detailed offerings of today. The models I have which were manufactured within the past two or three years do look fantastic, but they cannot hold a candle to the older models in terms of performance and speaking for myself I would rather have a recognisable "representation" of a prototype that does a good job and performs well than a "scale model" which doesn't.

[Rallymatt]

@TopCat, thank you. I’m so pleased that TT:120 from Hornby came along when it did, I have been able to immerse myself it a hobby I have always enjoyed, at a time when I really needed it too!

[81F]

Regarding lights, having them on diesels is a "nice to have" but on a British steam locos I would say they are a restrictive hindrance and best not to have them at all (unless your model is a preserved one with the high beam spotlight on the front)

My reasoning is, as many will know, that back in the day the number and position the lamps were changed to indicate the type of train. So unless you are going to restrict your loco to one type of traffic its best to have none rather than wrong - but that's just what I think.

On that subject I've always wondered why Hornby positioned the illuminated lamps on the 1970's Duchess of Sutherland indicated a fast freight of Fish train rather than express passenger!

[Ged_K]

Thought this might be a more general discussion on model / model rail layout lighting.

In the process of obtaining all the items to add lighting.

Perhaps widening the topic, as I thought this was, has anyone ever come across model street-lights that model Sodium vapor lights? All that I've found are white-light (which is fine for gas-lamp, Mercury vapor or very modern LED depiction)

[atom3624]

I definitely do like lights on a locomotive - obviously more-specifically on diesels / electrics at our scale - directional, yes.

Cab lighting? Several on here, or who visit are / have been related to railway operation and think it somewhat 'idiosyncratic' - novel, but doesn't normally happen. I'm certain some element of lighting is present and required, but a bright internal lamp would disturb as much as driving a car with the interior light on at night - perhaps I'm mistaken?

External lights on 'steamies' would be brilliant, but so would a reliable, inexpensive system which permitted swapping and changing as load, location and priority required - as mentioned.

Al.