Gaugemaster controllers - incompatible with HM7000?

[dBerriff]

Things are bubbling up on YouTube. First Sam and now Paul Briden: blown decoders and a common factor appears to be the use Gaugemaster DC controllers as a power source. Quick disclaimer: there is nothing wrong with Gaugemaster controllers when used for their intended purpose. I use one and it is excellent.

Should HM/Hornby make a statement on this?

[96RAF]

GM and some other analogue controllers can be feed-back or not and PWM or not depending upon model. The average Joe wouldn't know which was which so the latest Hornby advice is not to use any analogue controller.

If you followed the Paul Briden blether on FB you see he has been in touch with Hornby and was told not to use his analogue controller so he has switched as instructed to a Prodigy DCC controller and has since, put out yet another video about that.

As for Carpet Boy - the less said the better.

As reported Hornby are looking at the best way to promulgate not using any analogue controller for now. How you re-label the decoder packaging is nigh impossible to conform with PB's demands. As for a total recall until the controller thing is resolved - well come to your own conclusion on that demand. A bit like demanding that all cars were taken off the road when unleaded fuel was introduced.

[SteveM6]

There is a very simple solution - use any of the Hornby produced PSU recommended for use with HM7K or an existing power supply fed through an existing DCC controller and there won’t be an issue.

Try using any old transformer that happens to be lying around and you may have problems.

Simple choice really.

[dBerriff]

I am just the messenger. I am getting on fine with my decoder.

One observation. In any communications chain you have to consider all the elements. It might be the iPad, not the decoder, that is slow to respond.

[96RAF]

The packaging clearly says:

TRI-MODE

Functions with HM|DCC app control, DCC and DC controllers

If that's not the case, then the packaging must be changed, irrespective of how difficult it is.

 

 

Just needs the word controllers redacting, but who will be doing that as stock is scattered all over the world on shop shelves. Your suggestion whilst plausible in theory is impossible in reality. This is real life not la-la land.

[SteveM6]

Rob, could I volunteer to visit every model supplier on the distribution list with a felt pen. They would have to pay my expenses though. 😏

[Rallymatt]

It will be interesting to see if this is an issue with all Gaugemaster DC controllers or a particular batch, or a model etc. To Hornby’s credit they are standing by the product and replacing or refunding any ‘blown’ decoders.

Looking at it simply, a basic 15v DC power supply works with no issue via HM DCC App

DCC systems work with no issue

12v power supply regulated by approved controllers controller causes no issue.

Some controllers of unknown specifications and unknown numbers may have had an issue but these have neither been approved or otherwise for use with HM DCC decoders.

I did read one comment frothing about ‘how could HM DCC be NMRA DCC compliant?’ ….. When it’s a DC only issue?

[Rallymatt]

@steve M6, would expenses also include the felt tip pen?

[SteveM6]

@steve M6, would expenses also include the felt tip pen?

 

 

I would happily supply my own - I’m not greedy. They’re bound to be on a special offer somewhere.

[LTSR_NSE]

You’d need to ensure your felt pen was compatible with the packaging! (permanent marker needed for glossy cardboard)

I would volunteer to quality check your work, but provided you miss less than 10% it should be fine! wink

[SteveM6]

10%? Good enough for government work.

[Moccasin]

You’ll both probably have your hands full dealing with the UK & Europe retailers. I’ll be happy to take the Australian retailers off your hands on the same expenses basis, to help speed things up.

[dBerriff]

A couple of assumptions there. I must ask: why would anyone run controllers in series? Also, do not try this at home.

[Daedalus]

No they are presumptions, the basis of fault finding.

By mishap. I'm not suggesting it is deliberate.

[dBerriff]

One YouTube “influencer” has given the opinion that Bluetooth control is sluggish. Turns out he was running iOS 9. Even my old Air is on 12. All I will say is that in my opinion HM/Hornby needs to be more prescriptive. There are far more ways of getting things wrong than getting them right.

[dBerriff]

No they are presumptions, the basis of fault finding.

 

 

No, technical knowledge and the systematic examination of system behaviour through measurement at designated test points is the basis of fault finding.

Edited for more precise example.

Presumptions can lead to erroneous diagnoses. As an example: Commentators are presuming that their HM7000 decoders have slow Bluetooth response. It might be that the fault is in their out-of-date iPad software.

[Daedalus]

O.K. It's a conspracy. Faulty chips are being sent to people with Gaugemaster analogue controllers to discredit the make.

[dBerriff]

I see no logic in that response. I was commenting on your use of the word presumption. I would not have started this topic if it was not becoming apparent that Gaugemaster DC controllers might not be compatible.

[Owain_G]

I think its rather sad and annoying, that a feature that was likely to tempt a lot of people to dabble in the 'dark side' of dcc is now going to probably feed the preconception that it's all just 'troublesome witchcraft'. It also seems odd that testing didn't include probably the most popular and respected UK brand of DC controllers. Fair enough the Christmas cracker quality controllers you get in your avwrage trainset.

What seems to be on the face of it a good, innovative, good value product seems to be hamstrung by being conceived to operate solely within the Hornby 'bubble'.

[ColinB]

My view is, it was quite a novel idea but the practicality lets it down. First issue is it is Bluetooth, so it needs an aerial which then dictates the size of the pcb. I don't know if you could just surround the pcb with the aerial to make it smaller but for the moment it is large. Any model railwayer is going to have small tank engines so the decoders won't fit. In fact up until now fitting a DCC decoder was a challenge. So to use this system you are going to need a mix of this system and DCC. Then we have teething issue, the big one for me is that it doesn't work with Android. Yes I know it will eventually but for me I have had a decoder for nearly a month that I cannot use properly, that does not help with the device's credibility. The thing that does concern me is that TTS was very prone to overheating, if Sam is to be believed we may have the same issue with this device.

So if it was meant as a toy for people to control a couple of Hornby trains, then it is ok but for the rest of us, DCC is still king. The ability to load you own sounds is good but as I have said previously you could have made that available anyway.

[dBerriff]

I initially thought that the decoders could be used with any DCC infrastructure. I see reports of CV values not being set or being unset so I am not sure now. Anyway, I am backing off from further comment until HM/Hornby takes some ownership of the dialogue. (absolutely no criticism intended of our Mods who have done an excellent job but must now be overwhelmed by the issues being raised)

[SteveM6]

All of the issues raised on here (and other forums) have been passed on to the development team for investigation.

Obviously, a detailed response will take time......and it’s a bank holiday weekend so no one will be back in the office until Tuesday.

[96RAF]

@colin

I had a new decoder run up to almost 70 deg C in a faulty loco and it didn't fail.

@all

In fact how many of these ‘failed’ decoders have blown and how many are simply screwed up by finger trouble, either bricked or destroyed by use of improper power supplies contra to current advice- eg Carpet Boy’s failure.

It is known the GM and others have feedback and non-feedback controllers and these can be either PWM or rectified and smoothed rheostat outputs. Some of these are no doubt fine to use as a power source and some are a definite no-no. Until Hornby check and advise the safest route is to say no DC controllers are suitable.

[Brew Man]

Until Hornby check and advise the safest route is to say no DC controllers are suitable.

I don't know why people can't just get that into their heads and simply use either a DCC controller or a DC PSU to power their tracks, instead of complaining that DC controllers are not working or causing their decoders to fail. It isn't difficult, is it!

 

 

[Moccasin]

Until Hornby check and advise the safest route is to say no DC controllers are suitable.

I don't know why people can't just get that into their heads and simply use either a DCC controller or a DC PSU to power their tracks, instead of complaining that DC controllers are not working or causing their decoders to fail. It isn't difficult, is it!

The cynic in me would suggest that the social media accounts propagating and fueling this issue are enjoying the extra traffic and ad revenue. They know that Hornby-bashing is a sure-fire way to drive viewers and clicks. Hornby can of course help themselves by publishing some further clarification.

That’s just my cynical side of course.