What happened to good manners?

[Topcat2018]

I've noticed recently that some discussion starters who are looking for a solution to a problem don't have the courtesy to acknowledge people who reply offering solutions. On two occasions recently discussion starters have asked for help. In one case three people responded, in the other case I was the only responder. In both cases the discussion starters didn't even reply to the suggestions.

Whenever I ask for help I always reply to suggestions, even if they aren't the solution to my problem.

[ellocoloco]

Hi TC,

If we are thinking about the same recent posts I would like to think that the reason is that the OP (often with their first post) is unfamiliar with forums, their usage and etiquette. They could of course just be bone idle, but as I work in a public facing role, maybe I have lost some of my faith in humanity..............!

[Topcat2018]

Hi ellocoloco,

I think we are talking about the same, which were two first posts. But I think that however you interact with people, either face to face or via some electronic medium, if someone tries to help you you should acknowledge them.

[LTSR_NSE]

Another possibility could be that people are so used to other forums/social media & their constant barrage of notifications, that this forum’s (somewhat old-fashioned) ‘bespoke’ design (which requires users keep inspecting ‘most recent post’ time-stamps, to identify potential replies) leaves them completely oblivious to the presence of any replies!

I agree that courtesy & gratitude are wonderful attributes, unfortunately however (again experience learnt from customer support roles) there is only one loser in expecting to receive them. ☹️

[P-Henny]

I agree entirely, that with respect to first time posts. Many (but not all) are assuming that as they haven't recieved a 'you have a reply' mail notification that they just don't come back to check.

This is the ONLY forum / social media type website I have had any dealings with that DO NOT provide the notification service by default. In my case I log into my relevant accounts and choose to switch notifications off as for me they are an irritation.

It is a pity the service is not offered, as in many cases the first time poster does actually get a reply giving a solution to their problem that they probably miss.

In some cases, I am sure that they do not come back because they have found their answer via another parallel path elsewhere or found the solution for themselves through trial 'n' error. In this specific scenario I agree that it is 'common courtesy' to come back if only to say 'problem solved'.

And yes, I am sure there is a small % of first time posters who just absorb the information and disappear without further comment.

Over the years of reading this forum in all its platform itterations it is not the first time that comments have been raised regarding forum reply manners, and Hornby have failed to add the feature when the forum upgrade opportunities arose.

I think it would be really helpful if the Hornby webmasters were to add a very prominent sentence (big bold and capitalised) on the forum home page that 'email Reply Notifications are not sent'.

To be pedantic, I would have posted this topic in the 'Forum Feedback' forum not G.D.

[DarkRedCape]

This is actually the reason I don’t frequent this forum much anymore, which is a shame because I genuinely enjoy being a member of this forum.

I still consider myself new to this hobby and there is a great deal I don’t know, so being able to learn from the extensive knowledge of the members here is something I’ve enjoyed very much. Being able to share your knowledge with the less knowledgeable is what forums like this are about, and even when I’m not involved in the conversation, reading the threads is still enjoyable because I always learn something new.

But I found that more and more, as I asked for help on basic issues and what I suppose would be regarded as beginner issues, I found some of the replies to not only be unhelpful, but in some cases they were just rude. So I felt like, if I’m not going to get help, and get an attitude at the same time, I won’t bother.

I do miss being involved in this forum, even adding the tiny bit of knowledge I do have from time to time. I’ll pop in now and then to post a new loco arrival, but as for asking for advice, I’ve largely been put off.

[St1ngr4y]

@Topcat

I have been thinking of posting a message similar to yours for a while. Back in July, a one-post-only OP asked a reasonable question about semaphore signals in the Railmaster section and I was one of two or three people who replied. The OP hasn’t responded or written any other posts since.

It makes you wonder why we bother.

Ray

[Yelrow]

Hi,Ray, trust you are keeping well. I totally agree about forum, but think it’s an age thing. When I joined, we all knew each other, jokes were shared, as was common courtesy. Today, small talk is frowned on, going off piste, a punishable event. Newer posters don’t see the friendly side, so take their answer, and leave. The other forum, to which many of us belong, has no such restrictions. I do not post very often now. The younger generation, write as they speak, which tends to be abrupt. Tis a pity.

[ntpntpntp]

The observations raised here tend to be a phenomenon with all forums.

Some posters splash questions around on several sites, maybe find answers elsewhere, or never get a notification of a reply so don't come back. Some maybe find the answers confusing or not quite what they were asking, but don't follow up through embarrassment.

Posters don't appreciate the "it's been asked before so use the search" responses some folk issue as they're fed up with repeating themselves again and again. Happily I don't see much of that here compared to some other forums I frequent, but it's not helpful if the forum's search engine is poor.

[Yelrow]

The forums search engine has always been a mystery to me. Once things disappear into it, Bon Chance. You are right about the same question being asked on other forums, the scatter gun effect.

[RDS]

@Topcat, you are absolutely right and that is why I prepared the thread below a long time ago - it has not made any difference though!

Important Information for New Members Registering for the Forum (Updated 29th March 2023) :: Hornby Hobbies

[Yelrow]

Hi, Dave, Excellent thread that, however, it’s the Reading it, that is the prob. People just don’t read rules or instructions. I am just as guilty. Just bought a Skil, mini pruner with 50 pages of instructions. Heather put book next to my chair to read. I filed it. Learn as I go.

[Topcat2018]

@RDS

Yes, it's evident that some people don't read the information for new users.

[96RAF]

Folk don’t even pay their respects to a funeral cortège these days. Poor upbringing in my opinion. Good manners costs nothing.

[What About The Bee]

I've been a member of various forums and discussion groups for decades.

I just happen to think that this forum is one of the most polite and good natured forums I have ever been on.

From my viewpoint, even when there is some quibble or misunderstanding, it is handled politely and without rancor.

I also get that sometimes I may stray and don't mind being shoo'd back into line.

The "no notification" policy is so unique that it is entirely unexpected. Folks ask for help and get the sound of crickets. There may be 100 helpful suggestions, but they aren't seen, as there is no notice. They do not expect that, given the nature of all the other comment boards. And no, a first time poster, asking for help, is extremely unlikely to wade through rules and regulations in long form text.

If I help someone, and they do thank me, I think that very nice. If they don't, I get the internal satisfaction that I tried. Maybe the person being helped didn't like my answer or suggestion. Maybe I was dead wrong. Maybe they were having a bad day. Let it go, a thank you isn't a requirement. It is very nice to hear, and a plus when it happens. Celebrate the win, enjoy the moment.

Bee

[LTSR_NSE]

Ultimately this forum exists to enable us to share our common interest/hobby. Hornby’s hope is that it will encourage new & repeat customers (thereby offering a return for providing it.)

Naturally those seeking help & those offering it, can (and should try to) improve each other’s day with courtesy & gratitude.

Hopefully if these are seen as a bonus, (rather than expectation) they can be appreciated even more when they are given & received. However (imho) the most important thing is to ensure that our own day is not worsened by their absence.

[atom3624]

Must admit, if I've given an opinion / proffered advice then I admit it's nice to know if it's been applied, and above all, been successful.

Sometimes, it may relate to internet access, and perhaps the location of parts and duration of the repair, so may drag out a little longer than is apparent on a simple webpage forum.

It 'gets my goat' with cars being so reliable and easy to drive nowadays, just how difficult it appears to be to 'show intention to change direction', otherwise known as indicate, but it happens .... a lot!

It's perhaps just modern, lazy mentality.

This site does seem to be devoid of this most of the time, but it can happen.

I don't see it possible to oblige people to respond within 'x' period of time as this will lose members faster than ever, when we're trying to encourage a new generation of enthusiasts.

To some extent we'll have to live with this minority, and hope the vast majority have a positive influence here .... wish they could with indications on the public roads!!

Al.

[P-Henny]

Something I forgot to add in my Page 1 reply.

As a member who tends to provide answers rather than ask questions.

Do I get peeved if I do not get a thankyou ... no.

Do I do what I do to get plaudits ... no.

Would it be nice to at least know that the reply has been read by the O.P ... absolutely.

I'm not sure which is worse, not knowing if the advice has been read at all OR getting a minimal 'my issue has been resolved' reply that doesn't actually tell you whose advice worked for them and what was it that did the trick. Afterall, that missing information is key to providing 'shared learning' for all.

[96RAF]

The presence of a like or thanks button would be a simple acknowledgement of help without having to write a post to say that, but that will not come until the next iteration of the forum, which is aways off yet.

[81F]

Thanks for the memory jog - Just edited my post asking about liveries for the DAPOL crane kit!

[Barry-350851]

Being the Hornby forum, a lot of the people who come here for advice seem to be a) novices to model trains and modelling and b) not that savvy when it comes to the internet of things.

Some may think it is a Hornby representative answering them, may be annoyed that the product they bought isn't working perfectly out of the box as they expected.

If they aren't that internet savvy, I can imagine them forgetting their password, having no idea about storing it in their browser or AV, being able to see the answer but they have no idea how to get back in to reply.

[What About The Bee]

Spot on Barry. I have seen any number of persons come here, thinking that they are speaking directly to a Hornby Representative.

It is frankly astonishing to me that Hornby does not have a customer service representative monitor these pages. Even better would be a dedicated area, like Wish Lists or General Discussion, termed "Talk to a Hornby Representative", wherein the correspondent gets exactly that.

Goodwill is created when others see reasonable issues handled in a professional manner. Example: suppose my locomotive came without a part and I write a post. Hornby responds with an apology, and says, we will send you that part. If this is in a public arena, you will see this and say to yourself, 'If something happens to me, Hornby has me covered."

I know the moderators meet with Hornby representatives, perhaps the issue can be raised in that meeting

Bee

[AndyMac1707817969]

What is the cost to benefit ratio for such as service? How much would Hornby have to add to the cost of each product to pay for this? Customers generally have no end of ideas as to services companies should provide ‘free of charge’. Seems to go over many people’s heads that someone has so pay for this. At the end of the day companies get their income from customers so the paying customer foots the bill one way or another, there is no free lunch.

[LTSR_NSE]

Having requested/persuaded a small group of volunteers to moderate this forum (and having struck gold getting dedication & reliability from all of them) Hornby apparently feel that an employed representative is an unnecessary expense.

Whilst I might question if such a decision is fair to them(!) - their effort & ethic certainly make a compelling financial argument. This is in no way intended as a criticism, merely an observation & obvious demonstration of appreciation to the mods!

[What About The Bee]

Hello AndyMac

You asked, how much would an online a Hornby Representative cost.

My answer: £0.0

There are already customer service representatives who handle issues most adroitly. Simply have the existing representatives respond. In essence, they do already. Person who approach the forum first are directed to a customer service representative.

What is the cost benefit ratio? I have mentioned the goodwill engendered and further mentioned the confusion encountered by many. This eliminates the confusion, adds good will.

A ratio is a computation. Division by zero yields infinity.

I do understand that the existing reps might be too busy to also handle issues here and there may therefore be an associated cost increment. But I have no evidence of manpower loading in any department at Hornby, let alone customer representatives to make an informed judgment

Bee