Manual speed control knob for HM7000 - Is it possible?

[TheTen2Fiver]

I am rejoining the hobby and am interested in the HM7000 system. However I do not like or want to use a touchscreen for speed/braking control. Is it possible to link HM7000 with a controller that has a knob like a gaugemaster?

[96RAF]

No is the short answer, but . . .

The decoders work on normal DCC however you do not then have the benefits the app provides.

The app communicates with the decoder over the air. A regular controller communicates with the decoder via the rails. Each decoder has 2 addresses, one for OTA and one for DCC.

There is a dongle that allows app control of DCC decoders via a DCC controller, but this is not what you are looking for.

It has previously been suggested that a tactile OTA controller be developed but this is future planning dependant.

[TheTen2Fiver]

Thanks for the prompt response 96RAF, much appreciated.

I have 10 new steam OO gauge locos (9 Hornby & 1 Oxford) collected over the last 18 months plus 7 old locos that have not been run since the 80's (4 Hornby, 1 Airfix and 2 Mainline J72s, one of which is still new and has never been run) I have ditched all the old streel track and am about to buy new 55m of new track.

l have yet to decide DC or DCC with DC being the favorite due to the extra cost of DCC.

Shame about the HM7000 lack of manual driving control as this would have been the answer.

I suppose I should consider Radio Control (RC) which is now a serious alternative and less expensive even than the HM7000 system and has the advantages of no wiring or track cleaning needed or running problems over points. Have you any experience of RC?

[ColinB]

You could do as I do, just treat HM7000 as a DCC sound decoder and just use the smartphone app to load the profile and test it out. Once you are happy then revert to DCC where there are systems that will do what you want to do. I like the windows interface because you can control the loco with a mouse rather than pulling a bar graph on your phone with your finger. One of the things that does annoy me about the HM7000 interface is you cannot just point at the speed you want on the speed control, you have to "pull" the curser on the bar graph to the required value. I much prefer how my Velux windows app works where you point to where you want the new value to be and it goes there, so I know it is possible. I use a Digikeijs DCC system which I think is wonderful. Unfortunately they went bust, but there is an upgrade available from a new Supplier which I gather makes it even better, hopefully when the global integrated circuits issue gets resolved, I will get one.

[Fishmanoz]

Colin, that’s fine for people like us who already have a DCC system but not for 10-2-5er who hasn’t and is balking at the cost including a controller. Notwithstanding the superiority of a DCC system given his larger loco roster.

[ColinB]

I know but the post I read said that they were deciding on DC or DCC, so if they are going to go DCC then they have the option. HW7000 was marketed as a system where you can control everything with your phone but it appears that is not always the case, like buying a Bachmann loco pre fitted with sound. I was just offering solutions it is up to them whether they follow them or not.

[Ighten 1707822464]

I'm stil slightly baffled why a separate tactile controller has to be developed when the last time I looked every smart phone has a tactile up/down volume control.

Whilst I can see issues with compatibility issues with various phones and the "fixed usage or hard coding " of that control it still should be possible when even some spreadsheet apps manage it.

[LTSR_NSE]

@Ighten - I imagine that for those who want a ‘proper’ tactile control, little volume push buttons won’t be good enough.

Considering that the app already supports ‘haptic touch’ in ‘live swiping’ mode - those who simply want some fingertip feedback are already accommodated!

[96RAF]

I think the tactile guys are looking for a rotary control.

[TheTen2Fiver]

Thanks for the various replies.

My love of railways dates back to the 1950s when I was a train spotter in Leeds. As a major rail hub Leeds was on both the former LNER & MIDLAND main lines running to the North/South (London/Scotland), North East/South West (Newcastle/Birmingham/Bristol) and East/West ( Hull-Manchester Liverpool). Being half way between the capital and Scotland Leeds & York) were the main stations for changes of locomotives and crew.

Therefore one of my main play value requirements in a model railway is a busy station where the station pilot brings in and takes away empty stock and locomotives are changed. I want to make up passenger and goods trains by shunting and I do not want an automated layout where I just set it up and watch. I prefer to drive the locos myself and IMHO a touch screen finger control is nowhere near as satisfying as a sensitive rotary control with inertia braking (eg Gaugemaster) and a loco (ideally with a flywheel to provide a challenge each time.) It is nice to get away from mobile devices for a while! Which rules out the HM7000 for me.

Although sound has improved no end, I still think it is not realistic enough yet and can become a bit annoying, so this DCC feature does not appeal at the moment.

However DCC can provide the things I want and it has some advantages that I would appreciate. I just have to do a cost/benefit evaluation of a new DCC controller & decoders for my 10 DCC ready locos against a new DC controller (Gaugemaster twin track with simulation is current favourite) and go with DC. Going DCC would mean I would have to retire my 7 old non DCC ready locos.

Any thoughts on DCC controllers that would give a tactile rotary type control?

[Brew Man]

You wouldn't have to retire your old locos, they can all be converted to DCC. I do agree with you about interaction. There is no substitute for being able to interact with your layout. It's the reason I chose to run my trains via DCC, but operate all my accessories, points, signals etc. via analogue.

I can't really advise on choice of controller as I've only used Hornby's offerings to date, but I'm sure others will be along with more alternatives.

[moawkwrd]

Hornby Elite seems like an obvious option. Plenty of others out there with physical rotary control.

I run my HM7000 fitted locos with the Hornby Select as like you, I prefer the rotary control dial and physicality. It’s really the best of both worlds as I can tweak the settings via the app when required but otherwise run it like any other DCC system.

[96RAF]

Hornby Elite seems like an obvious option. Plenty of others out there with physical rotary control.

I run my HM7000 fitted locos with the Hornby Select as like you, I prefer the rotary control dial and physicality. It’s really the best of both worlds as I can tweak the settings via the app when required but otherwise run it like any other DCC system.

 

 

With the dongle plugged into an Elite or Select you can control any decoder from the app, and those commands will reflect on the controller screen, e.g. functions, speed and direction. You can override the app by taking control from the controller. This controller method requires lodging any 7K decoders under dongle control.

The initial wish list requirement was for a handheld Bluetooth module with a simple screen, rotary speed knob and direction and function buttons, such that one could wander round the layout with this in hand controlling as if direct from the app. The device would ideally be rechargeable or mount batteries.

[Ian-Elmwood]

Hi,

I'm new to the forum, but have HM7000 in a couple of my locos and really enjoy the capabilities, especially the ease of playing sounds via the app. I also have a Select DCC with several other DCC locos that run via that. So I'm looking forward to the arrival of the legacy dongle so that I can control them all via either means...

Any idea when this is arriving? It has been on pre-order for a long time. Is the software taking a while to refine?

Thanks,

Ian

[Brew Man]

According to the Product page it is due anytime between now and Spring, but Hornby have been prone to slippage, err once or twice.

[Ian-Elmwood]

According to the Product page it is due anytime between now and Spring, but Hornby have been prone to slippage, err once or twice.

 

 

Thanks. Yes, I've seen that myself. I was wondering if someone 'closer to the ground' (eg. perhaps involved in the beta testing) might have more of a clue. I think 96RAF appears to have some insight?

[96RAF]

The test team, of which there are half a dozen members on the forum, has a few to play with and they are working well.

There has been some meshing comms problems but that is more associated with a recent iOS v17 update.

Once Hornby is happy that there are no problems it will be released. Obviously the sooner they are on sale the sooner Hornby starts to get payback from them.

[Ian-Elmwood]

That's fantastic. Thankls for the feedback.

I'm in no hurry, I'd much rather Hornby iron out as many bugs and wrinkles as possible. Obviously they want to get them released (for the sales), but it's better they work well when released.

(I experienced one or two issues with my HM7000 decoders when I first had them - known issues which others have reported/experienced - which have now been fixed since the updated software and 2.0 sound profiles came out. I know that dealing with unhappy customers who hit the snags of an early release must take a lot of Hornby's customer support time up, as well as frustrate the customers, so ultimately it's always better if they can wait a bit for bugs to be ironed out.)

[Ian-Elmwood]

One other query though.... does the App handle point decoders via the dongle? Or is it just train control for now?

[96RAF]

Points and other accessories can already be operated direct from the app using the HM6010 module, no dongle required.

Once the expanded GUI is sorted out for the app then R8247 acc decoders will be able to be operated via the dongle.

Note that the 6010 has the same functionality as the 8247 v2.0, but until the app GUI is done it is basic operation only.

[Ian-Elmwood]

Ok, great, thanks.

I only have R8247s at the moment, so it's operation of those via the app I'm interested in. I could get a 6010 in the meantime, I know, but I can wait.

[Fishmanoz]

Just a couple of tips for a new user Ian:

• very often no need to use quoted replies via 3 dots, especially if the quote is immediately above. Just use the text box at the bottom of the page and the green reply button as RAF and I are doing, and
• only need to put 1 carriage return between paras (except under a quote) as the forum software bizarrely adds a second one itself.

All helps to save digital trees, meaning we don’t have to keep turning the page to find the rest of the thread.

[Ian-Elmwood]

Aha, thanks. I've edited my posts to remove the excess, and give you back a few digital twigs. :-)

[96RAF]

Bachmann Kinesis and GM Infinity systems have exactly the sort of tactile wireless controller that folk are asking for. Hurry up Hornby before the boat sails.

[John-349669]

I use the App with the Flying Scotsman tt120 via Bluetooth without problems. All works well.

I also have an Elite controller, and have read it is possible to control the locos directly from the Elite, bypassing the App and doing without the extra features the App brings.

I wired the Elite up as I used to do with my OO layout , but the loco refuses to move! DCC control has been chosen in the App. The loco address is correct.

I know the dongle is supposed to link the Elite to the App when it is released, but I have been told an Elite or Select can be used directly.I am not finding this.

Could I be making some simple error? Or was my information incorrect?