Starting a brand new railway

[Andrew-375793]

Hello all

Like I suspect many people, I am mid 50's and now have a little more time on my hands and some space to build a model railway. Really excited about it!

I have 2 engines from my teenage years so they are 30 + years old.

I will have loads of questions, but wondered if I could start with some simple ones?

• I am going to build the track around my office at high level. On a ledge I will make. Track design therefore is critical as I need to design that before I make the ledge. I use CAD software a lot for work so wondered if there were any CAD symbols I could use to lay out the track? In particular the curves would be critical.
• Once I have a layout designed, is there anyone who could advise on whether it would work well or not? I have lots of ideas, but realise it could be easy to get wrong and not have enough points etc.
• I'd be keen to convert my old engines to digital (DCC). Is that relatively easy to convert, or should I give up on that idea. I would probably start with it as analogue to stay with but would be keen to make the whole layout digital at some point in the future (points, signals the lot). Is there anything I should do at the beginning to make the conversion to digital a little easier?

An exciting journey to start on! Any tips or suggestions most welcome!

Many thanks,

Andrew

[P-Henny]

Why reinvent the wheel.

There are two layout track design software packages that are free (with limitations) that saves you having to create your own CAD symbols. Thus someone else has already done the hard job of converting track geometry data into CAD. These packages have integral libraries built in for all the major track manufacturers and scales. They generate the final design into a parts list with manufacturer codes to aid purchase etc.

SCARM & AnyRail.

https://www.scarm.info/index.php

https://www.anyrail.com/en

[ModelerXYZ]

Welcome aboard Andrew.

Wether converting your existing locos to DCC would be easy or not, (I somehow doubt it) don't worry. Physically the differences in trackwork are:- You need to be able to put in the DCC point clips on the points. Also, a DCC circuit is continuious, so there is less complex wiring needed. This means that there are few if any Insulated rail joiners required unless you are doing something silly like a reverse loop.

Draw the layout up and post it on the forum, you will have to wait for moderators approval of the images, but the people on here generally have a good idea as to what works. Check out the getting started sticky at the top of the forum. Remember the 1st rule is to have fun.

XYZ

[atom3624]

Budget is always a consideration.

Modelling is often thought to be 'just that other thing when I'm bored', but it can become contagious very quickly, inclusive of funds required!

Set programmes, targets, and never believe 'it'll be complete by', as it never will!

DCC is the best option, particularly if at higher level - gives much more operational options.

Be prepared for unexpected derailments - miscreant fly from last Summer blown onto the rails, loose cylinder drains restricted front bogie movement, etc ... - so ensure you have good access as/when required.

Enjoy your new project!!

Al.

[Rallymatt]

Many of us are returnees 😁 Ease of access is something I would be keen to ensure, both for the build and operation. DCC is a great way to go for all the added features and relative simplicity of wiring, it’s not the complicated black art some would have you believe. A good plan is a good place to start. Make sure it’s going to do what you want it to before getting too stuck in. 😁

[Tony57]

Hi

Welcome back to this great hobby

Just out of interest is you plan to use 1, 2, 3 or all 4 walls for your shelf layout as there all sorts of options of what you can do depending of which option you pick as well as the width of the shelf?

[ntpntpntp]

Try not to go overboard with a complex plan for your first layout. Keep it simple so you don't get snowed under and disheartened if things don't go quite to plan. Build in phases which you can complete and have things running. Allow for future expansion as you progress and gain experience.

If you're going to have a high level shelf layout make sure you have a decent edge/fence in case something derails and heads for the floor! I must admit the ceiling level layouts sometimes seen in the USA do nothing for me at all, I want to be able to see the trains :)

A layout properly wired for DC will work on DCC as well, there's no mystic art to DCC. Some things can still be easier to do with DC than DCC, some things can benefit from the electronics developed for DCC. The oldest part of my N gauge DC exhibition layout was built in 1995. If desired I can plug in DCC, switch all sections on and it works. I'm perfectly happy with DC though (and have way too many older locos to want to convert them all). I wouldn't bother with "DCC point clips", fit proper feed wiring.

If your locos date from the 80s/90s they're likely to be fairly easy to convert to DCC as long as the motor can be fully isolated from the pickups/chassis. It will be a case of hard-wiring a decoder rather than simply plugging into an existing socket, but doable.

[Andrew-375793]

Hello all

Thank you so much for your replies - that really helps!

When I start things like this, I often go rushing into it feet first, but I am determined this time to take my time and do it bit by bit. In fact, my plan is :

HS1 - Build the ledge / shelf with lighting and a freeze etc - install a simple loop on DC

HS2 - Convert it to DCC

Those two stages, I am aiming to finish by the end of the year, then next year I will :

HS3 - Add the sidings and another loop

HS4 - Add the two "cross tracks" (sorry - not sure what you call them) that allow the trains to effectively change direction.

I have uploaded my first attempt at a track layout - still new to this and the software, so please feel free to criticise and advise as much as you like! Any help is much appreciated.

The grey rectangle at the top of the plan is the air-conditioning unit. The doors are at the bottom of the plan and the track will be all on the same level approx 2.2m from the floor. I will build the ledge around the office and across the office as part of the the final HS4 stage.

Anyway - thanks again all for the help. I still have loads of questions (is flex track ok to use for a straight or should I use normal track and cut it? Do I have to pin / fix the track down? That is going to be tricky to do) but will save those for another time.

Kind regards

Andrew

[GMD]

Sounds all good Andrew

Just to note that your fourth stage ‘cross tracks’ are in effect two reversing loops - very useful indeed for the layout but they do add slight complexity to the wiring, as you will need some isolated sections and/or digital add-on for both dc and dcc.

re getting older locos to accept dcc, it depends. Older diesels tend to have plenty of space for rewriting and decoders, less so for steamers. Don’t worry about it yet, get up and going and you’ll soon be confident enough to try what suits yourself best.

[LTSR_NSE]

@ANDREW - your plan includes a number of R605 (1st Radius) curves. Virtually all modern locos recommend using R607 (2nd Radius) as a minimum - mostly as a way of avoiding excessive wear on drive mechanisms & axles, but also because some of the larger locos (especially steam) will derail on 1st Radius.

As you are still planning, it would therefore be advisable to use R609 (3rd Radius) for the outer curves & R607 for the inner ones.

In answer to a couple of your future questions:

• Yes it is definitely recommended to pin or glue the sleepers to the board/shelf, to prevent unwanted movement resulting in derailments/collisions.

• Yes you can certainly use flexi-track for straight sections, pinning/gluing then becomes even more important as it keeps the track straight too!

[P-Henny]

The 'added complexity' that GMD refers to, is the fact that the two reversing loops (correct term for your cross tracks) you plan to add create an instant short circuit on a DCC Layout and a switched short circuit on a DC Layout.

I suggest you read FAQ 4 located in the 'DCC FAQ Index' pinned sticky thread at the top of the DCC forum.

[atom3624]

You may have to purchase one piece of 'modern track' and see how the 35 years old locomotives sit - are they on the rails, or sitting on the sleeper chairs?

Older locomotives generally have coarser wheels and with deeper flanges, which may not sit properly on the tracks.

It is possible to 're-wheel', it is possible to use old track, it may be possible there's no issue at all.

Al.

[Simmo009]

Older locomotives tend to draw more current than newer ones, and could potentially overload and blow decoders. If you have a multimeter, check the running and stall current of your Old Faithfuls as they may not be compatible. Ensure whichever decoders you settle on are rated high enough for the current you measure. If you don't have a multimeter, get one, they are not that expensive and are extremely useful.

[Going Spare]

Are not the reversing loops across the office going to get in your way in using the room and how are you going to support them?

[Andrew-375793]

Thanks all - there is a lot more to this than I thought!

Going Spare - the reversing loops (is that what they are called then? will be suspended from the ceiling above head height grin

[Rallymatt]

If the track is going to be suspended above head height, how will you watch the trains? Or is the plan to use a pulley arrangement to lower the layout down for play time?

[ModelerXYZ]

Yes two reverse loops on there. Very useful, but you will need insulated rail joiners both ends of each loop and 2 Reverse loop modules to control them. Not impossible, just make sure you have some method of checking which way the points are set from your operating position.

XYZ

[What About The Bee]

Hello Andrew

You mentioned that this railway will be above head height.

Now it is a secret that model locomotives cannot fly. No matter what they tell you, this closely guarded secret is true.

Examining the plan of your layout leads me to believe you will have narrow shelves and bridges supporting the track.

Do not expect your models to start flying like Rudolph when they derail. You should expect them to plummet like a rock, directly down, onto your floor. Where all the magic parts are freed from captivity.

You should plan on some sort of barrier around the edge of your shelves and bridges, to keep the magic parts on your locomotive models.

Bee

PS, This light hearted warning is to prevent later disappointment. Your models will occasionally derail. The real railways do. So will yours.

[Andrew-375793]

Thanks again all! So glad I posted as there is a lot of useful stuff here. Much appreciated.

I am going to see if I can swap the curves out for 2nd and 3rd radius curves (or maybe even 3rd and 4th). I am only going to do this once so want to make sure I get it right.

When I say overhead - it's only just over overhead, so hopefully I will be able to enjoy it. I will probably leave it running when I am working. Don't t think I will be doing much shunting etc. The fun for me will be in building it. Good call re fences too.

I have done some drawings of the whole office which I will upload when done.

Thanks again for all

Andrew

[ModelerXYZ]

Just above head height. So as I am vertically gifted, I would need to beware of low flying trains. The wider the curves the better. A useful (or maybe useless) peice of information is that standard Hornby points are Radius 2 and express points are radius 4. Its a good call regarding physical barriers to prevent your trains from falling. You have 14 sets of points, you wilmayl want to motorise them. remember that the wiring needs to be somewhere, either top or bottom. as the underneath will be very visible, I would reccommend wiring on top, but that brings complexities both with tools near the ceiling and also hiding the areas by scenery. How are you going to get up to your layout for doing things? Are you going to run your control wires to a more managable height? There are lots of hidden design practicalities that are not visible on the planning software.

XYZ

[Going Spare]

Agreed, standard points R8072/3 are 2nd radius but express points R8077/8 at 852mm are not 4th radius which is 572mm, and when used as a crossover, do not give the standard 67mm spacing between parallel track centres.

[Andrew-375793]

Can I jut check this? "standard points R8072/3 are 2nd radius but express points R8077/8 at 852mm are not 4th radius which is 572mm, and when used as a crossover, do not give the standard 67mm spacing between parallel track centres."

I've just mocked it up in Anyrail, using R8077 points as a crossover, and it looks like I do have 67mm centres. See screenshot

Have I misunderstood?

Andrew

[The son of Triangman]

Your old loco's may have issues with R.8000 series points. The R.8000 series points have shallower flangeways than their R.600 predecessors

[Tony57]

Hi Andrew,

The express points give the same track gap as standard points when used as a crossover the difference is needing to add 2x 610 quarter straights on top of the R600 straight to bring the ends level.

[Andrew-375793]

Thanks so much for clarifying Tony. Andrew