Brand new decoder shows up as resettable

[Rallymatt]

6 minutes ago, Andacami said:

Onwards and upwards but must say it's not been a pleasant user experience and I "do tech". 😜

This is something I have noticed, I am sure others have to. Those of us who ‘don’t do tech’ (as in computer wrangling) have less problems, I have to read the instructions and follow the steps carefully and check what I am doing. The danger is when someone ‘thinks’ they know what they are doing and it goes wrong. There have been some spectacular examples of this 👍

Edited Friday at 12:21 by Rallymatt
Typo

[Tomasz-1303413]

Those of us who "do tech" make awesome testers because we'll do things that a regular user just would not even consider doing 😄

[Brew Man]

9 minutes ago, Tomasz-1303413 said:

Honestly, I never understood why the TTS files are even showing up in the app profiles for HM7000 decoders. They should be filtered out. 

It was offered, I think so that TTS-enabled locos could be run from the App via a dongle and have a meaningful set of functions at your disposal.

[Tomasz-1303413]

Ah that makes sense. Still, the app should have a more graceful way of preventing loading of TTS profiles into HM7000 decoders than "corrupt profile". 

[Brew Man]

Agreed.

[ColinB]

47 minutes ago, Tomasz-1303413 said:

Those of us who "do tech" make awesome testers because we'll do things that a regular user just would not even consider doing 😄

I know, my German colleagues when they used to test our radios tested them to fail, if they passed it was a bonus. I complained at the time but it actually made a much better product. I don't know if this is a correct statement, but I get the opinion that the testing of this product was not done by full time professional people that do testing as their job. We always used to say anyone can write a piece of software, making it completely error free takes an awful lot more effort.

Edited Friday at 13:09 by ColinB

[ColinB]

35 minutes ago, Tomasz-1303413 said:

Ah that makes sense. Still, the app should have a more graceful way of preventing loading of TTS profiles into HM7000 decoders than "corrupt profile". 

It should generate a check box informing you that this is for functions only, with a "yes/no" box which will skip the profile loading and only load functions. This is the sort of information a tester should be feeding back.

Edited Friday at 13:00 by ColinB

[SteveM6]

1 hour ago, ColinB said:

I get the opinion that the testing of this product was not done by full time professional people that do testing as their job.

Insulting the test team, who put many hours of their time into the trials of this product, is a new low. 

[RB51]

Back on topic please chaps. R-

[LTSR_NSE]

Duplicated rubbish - please ignore 🙄

Edited Friday at 14:24 by LTSR_NSE

[ColinB]

23 minutes ago, SteveM6 said:

Insulting the test team, who put many hours of their time into the trials of this product, is a new low. 

That is not an insult that is the truth. I was hoping for a reply that would say that you use xyz to test it. Obviously not. I gather then that you are part of the test team. This product is super sophisticated probably as complex as many I have worked on, so you are talking serious testing. Do you do it as your full time job, I doubt it, you do it when you have time which is good. There is no way it was referring to your abilities, it was implying that if you want a product tested properly you should stump up the money to do it properly. We used to use Essex Police to test our new cars which was free but on top of there was a dedicated test team fully paid, doing the same job. So no I was not insulting you, if I did I am sorry, I was just pointing out the issues.

Edited Friday at 14:32 by ColinB

[ColinB]

8 minutes ago, LTSR_NSE said:

The TTS function maps are provided for operating TTS locos in the app via the dongle.  Since the function maps only load into the app - they have no effect on any TXS decoders!

I know that was explained earlier, but unfortunately it appears the App sees them as valid Profile data which shouldn't happen. Only the function loader should be able to load them. My knowledge is a bit rusty but a better way would be to have the function files written in a language like XML so that the Profile loader doesn't get confused. This may seem like criticism but these enhancements you could make to improve the product and ultimately make it more usable.

Edited Friday at 14:30 by ColinB

[Tomasz-1303413]

The function information is already available in json format, which is how I'm able to display the profile info in the profiles sticky post, however that's only for app use, the actual function code is in the aprom file and is a compiled binary that the cortex cpu on the chip can understand. The issue is that there is no spirom file in the TTS profiles and the app doesn't handle this gracefully. 

[ColinB]

33 minutes ago, Tomasz-1303413 said:

The function information is already available in json format, which is how I'm able to display the profile info in the profiles sticky post, however that's only for app use, the actual function code is in the aprom file and is a compiled binary that the cortex cpu on the chip can understand. The issue is that there is no spirom file in the TTS profiles and the app doesn't handle this gracefully. 

Great thank you for that information. I will look up the necessary file formats. The APROM file I assume is compressed binary data, we use to use that, to make the files smaller. So basically it is a bug that should be fixed, either that or remove all the TTS files. I just looked up json, that is easier to read than XML, it looks incredibly familiar, I must have used it for something in the past.

[Tomasz-1303413]

json is a JavaScript Object Notation, which basically displays data objects as text. Objects are defined by { } brackets, individual properties are just a list of name:value pairs. Objects can be nested within other objects.  Since JavaScript is loosely typed, unlike XML there are no type definitions, everything is assumed to by a text or number type.  

[ColinB]

10 minutes ago, Tomasz-1303413 said:

json is a JavaScript Object Notation, which basically displays data objects as text. Objects are defined by { } brackets, individual properties are just a list of name:value pairs. Objects can be nested within other objects.  Since JavaScript is loosely typed, unlike XML there are no type definitions, everything is assumed to by a text or number type.  

I am pretty sure c# uses the same, which is probably where I have seen it. Thank you though for the explanation. When I was working XML was all the rage for data files, all our databases for CAN messages were written in it. So why can't Hornby supply a dummy Profile file that contains nothing for each TTS application. That would solve the issue. On the other hand you really do need to tell the user that the file is only useful if you have a dongle.

[dBerriff]

Some days I wonder if I have logged into an alternative forum. I have had a couple of failed installs recently. I just started again. It all worked second time around. That's it. Boring but in a good way.

[Fishmanoz]

Seems to me there is some good content here for the Suggestions for Improvements thread?

Although I find it hard to believe personally that anyone would think the app could run a TTS decoder without the dongle in the middle?

[ColinB]

34 minutes ago, Fishmanoz said:

Seems to me there is some good content here for the Suggestions for Improvements thread?

Although I find it hard to believe personally that anyone would think the app could run a TTS decoder without the dongle in the middle?

Yes you are right, but why give them the option. I suppose it is being used to writing "in house" apps. If you don't make it bulletproof you get a queue at your desk. In Hornby's case, they get calls to the "Help Line" which wastes their time and costs money. This App is mean to be used by a relatively unskilled individual, a lot of people forget that.

[96RAF]

6 hours ago, Tomasz-1303413 said:

Honestly, I never understood why the TTS files are even showing up in the app profiles for HM7000 decoders. They should be filtered out. 

They are there specifically for folk who want to run TTS locos from the app via the dongle, to save them typing in all the functions each time. It is as BM says only a function map not a sound file. I agree if you attempt to load it to a TXS decoder it should flag up TTS only and grey out the install profile button. I will pass to the team.

@ColinB - you know fine well that the majority of the test team are regular folk like us, not professionals and I am surprised you continue with your lambasting of a volunteer force who are working for your benefit.

[ColinB]

17 minutes ago, 96RAF said:

They are there specifically for folk who want to run TTS locos from the app via the dongle, to save them typing in all the functions each time. It is as BM says only a function map not a sound file. I agree if you attempt to load it to a TXS decoder it should flag up TTS only and grey out the install profile button. I will pass to the team.

@ColinB - you know fine well that the majority of the test team are regular folk like us, not professionals and I am surprised you continue with your lambasting of a volunteer force who are working for your benefit.

96RAF as I said previously to your colleague, it was no reflection on your ability, but don't you think some aspects of the testing should be done by professional testers. You guys have tons of model railway experience but not the level of App knowledge a professional tester would. The loading of the TTS file being a prime example, if someone can load it they will then it is a phone call to the help line wasting someone's time and delaying further improvements. Do you test for people doing stupid things? Unfortunately these are the things you have to test for, even then the user finds ways you didn't think about. As I said if you think if I have offended you, I apologise, but even you have got to admit there are a lot of these little issues that need fixing.

[96RAF]

Colin

I wish I had recruited you to the team as the rest of us could have gone down the pub.

[SteveM6]

39 minutes ago, ColinB said:

96RAF as I said previously to your colleague, it was no reflection on your ability, but don't you think some aspects of the testing should be done by professional testers. You guys have tons of model railway experience but not the level of App knowledge a professional tester would.

The professionals were used to test the system in-house. The wider test team were recruited to undertake user acceptance testing - basically, "here's the system, see if you can break it". And break it we did so that the basic system worked from day one.

As for experience in this admittedly non-technical process, I can't speak for the others but as a former manager for one of the UK big four banks, I spent a couple of decades undertaking UAT for a number of major technical projects before becoming a project manager in my own right.

As Rob said, if only we knew, could have had the last 18 months off.

[ColinB]

5 minutes ago, SteveM6 said:

The professionals were used to test the system in-house. The wider test team were recruited to undertake user acceptance testing - basically, "here's the system, see if you can break it". And break it we did so that the basic system worked from day one.

As for experience in this admittedly non-technical process, I can't speak for the others but as a former manager for one of the UK big four banks, I spent a couple of decades undertaking UAT for a number of major technical projects before becoming a project manager in my own right.

As Rob said, if only we knew, could have had the last 18 months off.

Us arguing is not going to get anywhere, the app shouldn't be able to load the wrong sort of files, if a user can do it they will. 96RAF said he will get it fixed, end of story.

 

[Rallymatt]

Thank goodness the amateur rag tag testers didn’t link their decoders to the wrong app! That would be embarrassing