96RAF Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Kings speech - what do we think of that snippet. Gives Hornby a boost by introducing a new livery across their whole inventory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM6 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 I never thought I would be an advocate for nationalisation of any industry but the current model for privatised industries clearly has not delivered what was promised all those years ago. A programme of 'creeping nationalisation' as each licence comes to an end will be relatively inexpensive compared with an immediate revoking of all franchises. Hopefully the new rail directorate will have learned the lessons of history and won't repeat the mistakes made before - under both private and public ownership. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Our new PM has presented his new projects and the King has spoken ... British Rail will return. Thoughts? Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Spare Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Perhaps this thread should be amalgamated with 96RAF's immediately below? Mod note - done 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moccasin Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Given that LNER has been in public control for several years and is, arguably, the best intercity operator in the UK, I don’t think it’s a bad thing at all. That’s not so much an argument against private control overall, just that the current situation is the worst of both worlds. Private companies being micro-managed never works very well. Until the DfT are allowed to manage both revenue and costs, we may still see short term cost cutting without considering benefits of targeted investment. None of those points are party political - Treasury have recently had too much power whatever the colour of their politicians’ rosettes. It’s to be hoped that freight gets dealt a better hand as well as they are being crowded out of timetable planning successful freight is good for the railways, the country, the environment and, most importantly, the railway modelling fraternity! At one point I recall that the idea was that all liveries would have the same basis, with only minor embellishment allowed for each company. That’s already pretty much how London buses operate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyMac1707817969 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Nationalisation has never been the answer to anything in the past and I doubt it will work any better than it did before. Will just make it a lot more difficult to charge a price for a ticket that in any way reflects the cost of providing that service. You will just end up with the idea of the railways are owned by the public so why should I have to pay twice, once with my taxes and then again for a ticket Well I guess we can expect model railway catalogues to get a lot thinner if we end up with a single livery. Going to be a lot more difficult to justify a product if there are few variations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 The railway franchise system was still heavily subsidised, with direct cash from taxes, fare support and through the leasing companies. It was never truly left to stand on its own two feet. There are good parts from all the different systems tried and some howlers, it’s going to require a massive amount of effort to focus in getting a solid long term plan in place. Governments are for 5 years, the railways are here for hundreds of years. That creates a conflict of interests. I am sure there will be lots of model options though as people reminisce about the good old days of privatisation liveries and want to relive the glory of Arriva Trains …… Thinking ahead on the actual models, there are so few loco/set types now too and it will get less and less. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 If all else fails it should make buying a ticket from A to B more easy as well as getting there without having to tread the narrow path of a bespoke operator. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis-Dublin Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 4 hours ago, 96RAF said: Kings speech - what do we think of that snippet. Gives Hornby a boost by introducing a new livery across their whole inventory. You beat me to it about Hornby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis-Dublin Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Good look with the water companies. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 Since the details were rather thin, I went to find some answers. https://news.railbusinessdaily.com/king-announces-legislation-to-see-the-establishment-of-great-british-railways/ Not a terribly long read. What is intended for GBR is in the lead paragraphs. Then a whole bunch of quotes from officials and administrators reacting. Still very informative. Bee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted July 17 Author Share Posted July 17 I wonder who got paid and how much for thinking up the new name and then there will be spin off loot for design of new livery and re branding all the associated paperwork, stations, uniforms, etc, etc. Reducing cost to the tax payer - not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 It would be cost effective if that were done organically, like the re-nationalization upon contract expiration. The article said that to save cost, contracts would not be bought out with compensation, rather, they would simply be allowed to expire. If that approach is followed for uniforms, then the normal cost of uniform allowance will gradually see everyone in the proper uniform. Similarly for liveries and other things. One other thing the article pointed out is that a political party may last for years or perhaps 1 or 2 decades, but the railways have been around for 200 years. The sense I got from that is that the latest solution will at best be temporary and no coherent long term strategy will be retained. Bee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 They just can't leave our Railways alone just look at the History of our Railways it's either Privatised then Nationalised then Privatised then Nationalised, just choose 1 thing then stick with it!!! 🤔🚂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dBerriff Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) I am 74 and BR was set up just before I was born. The railways were then privatised in the 1990s. Where operations have been taken back into government control, wholly or partially, this because a franchise has failed to deliver to their contract. So this is only the second change in general ownership and management in the last 75 years or so. Edited July 18 by dBerriff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threelink Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 The theory behind nationalisation is all well and good but in practice it means politicians and civil servants running industries about which they know nothing by setting unrealistic rules and targets which will change every time there is a general election A national railway system run by railwaymen? - Yes. One run by politicians? - No thanks. History shows that parliament is incapable of making nationalisation in the UK work - BR, NCB, British Steel, British Road Services, British Leyland. The list goes on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 This thread is getting far too political, normally it would have been locked by now but I will add my piece. There is a really good youtube video which I assume comes from a documentary about the issues of the Railways, it is narrated by Ben Elton. It highlights the fact that although we moaned about British Rail and its inefficiencies, it could not be run cheaper which is why private companies struggle with it. As to the new liveries, it will probably be about 3 to 5 years for it to happen and probably 3 to 5 years for Hornby to produce one, so I wouldn't hold my breath. Perhaps now would be a good time to lock it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deem Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Some will have strong opinion about pros of nationalism others will have strong opinions of cons of nationalism, it's a catch 22 situation. Solution, it's pot luck, just like everything else in life, sometimes we get lucky and other times we don't. As the railway is very good, it's very important means of transport for some or most, maybe Govt should have national debate and pickup ideas from various sector of public. Instead of having this in there head we are in charge, we know what we are doing and either get lucky or mess up even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 Is it the right thing to allow 'the chosen few' privateers with the lucrative markets to make yet more millions from the not-very-regulated poor paying public, leaving the Government to pick-up the pieces on the areas not performing, injecting millions of more public money to try and maintain it? Surely, IF WELL MANAGED ... the profits from the lucrative / profitable sectors could fund those not so, permitting a more even playing field, thus acceptable service for all, covering a wider area? Al. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 (edited) My local line is one of the few who benefitted greatly from privatisation, it went from neglected underinvestment (where passengers felt miss treated & ignored) under BR, to huge investment, efficiently run & (seemingly) profitable. However other lines have been/are run by companies who seem to be more interested in pocketing the subsidies than actually providing a service. In my opinion it is therefore irrelevant whether the railway is private or national - the only critical factor is that all lines must be run efficiently & as a service to passengers. Unfortunately there aren’t enough decent managers/staff (or not enough investment in less profitable areas) to provide this. Edited July 18 by LTSR_NSE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted July 18 Author Share Posted July 18 I suppose success of any line is down to effective management and active and positive promotion of the service along with concurrent degradation of other local transport links allied to maybe re development of housing and shops, etc in an area. So many factors to take account of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LY shunter Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 My local station is the tenth worst station in the country for cancelations Already 16 services for tomorrow have been cancelled , do I need to say what I think of privatising of railways 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Fred Posted July 19 Share Posted July 19 At least you have a decent rail system there. Here in South Aussie, we have NO country rail service maybe 2 a week to other capital cities and the suburban sytem is not safe to travel on. I live in regional area and we do have a good rail line here, the "cockle train" which runs from Victor Harbor to Goolwa, purely a holiday experience, runs daily during school holidays and week-ends for the tourist trade. Sometimes steam and sometimes diesel/electric loco or DMU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dBerriff Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 Pre-Covid, when I had to travel from Rutland to Surrey once or twice a week I found the service worked well. Thameslink, Cross Country and LNER trains were mostly on time except for a couple of occasions when overhead-line damage messed things up. The difficult part was booking the tickets. The timings could be bizarre, with travelling through London on Thameslink during the rush hour being the cheapest option for an early start. Using the Trainline agency could help reduce the return fare from over £140 for the return journey to somewhere in the £70 to £95 range. This was with a Railcard which knocked another 33% off the cost. The £30 card saved me thousands of pounds. It does not seem fair to me that someone who was not able to use IT or who was not been able to buy a railcard could pay over twice what I was paying. So, rational fares would be welcome, although the tech-savvy amongst us could end up paying more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dBerriff Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 (edited) We travelled from Derby to York this week and we were glad we had booked seats. This Cross Country service was really busy, on the return journey linking Edinburgh, York, Leeds, Sheffield, Derby, Birmingham, Bristol and on to Penzance. Here was a train earning its keep. So post-Covid the system appears to be alive and well. With a Veteran's Railcard which covers both of us for £30/year, the return fare was £40 each, which I do not think is at all bad. (Railcard gives around 1/3 discount.) I have to agree that we have a decent if crowded rail system. We also have some magnificent stations to help make travel more interesting (as do other countries of course). I should acknowledge that our travel was in a strike-free period. York Station looking North: Edited July 20 by dBerriff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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