96RAF Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Nice idea Ken, 2000 miles is a ways to go for a beer and a chin wag, but you never know.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 Hi if you are ever then look me up before we go back onto steam engines I did work on the nimrod air borne radar a very good system but failed in the end to go into production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 11, 2016 Author Share Posted August 11, 2016 Things look like there are coming together well the only thing that look to be a problem is the servo unit if built like the Hornby engines the end of the motor will end up in the cab, all my other engines have a crew working away keeping the engine looking like a true miniature of the full size engine. This picture is my LS West Country with its back head full of gauges and pipe work and is what I would like to see in this engine but I think we have a way to go yet./media/tinymce_upload/0621be742ef4710961826b37938e6e29.JPGOne way this might be changed would be to make a new servo gear box with the motor hanging downwards in the frames between the 2 axles thus leaving the cab untouched. See drawing/media/tinymce_upload/cc71e3389be7e953554bea921c03c659.jpgI made a start on the new servo motor unit and if this works out ok it will allow me to build the cab up as a working cab with my flickering fire light idea for the replacement of the Hornby red and green light system.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 Absolutely amazing to read this thread. I'm like a little boy in awe of a hero. In some ways I hope it doesn't get sorted - I'll be lost without this to read. Seriously, keep it coming, I love it. R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 11, 2016 Share Posted August 11, 2016 If the schematic on page 4 of this thread is anywhere near to scale Ken then your vertical motor looks as if it will work and that releases room to move what I presume is the safety valve feeding steam from the tender to the superheater to move forward also clearing the cab area.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 11, 2016 Author Share Posted August 11, 2016 well tounge in cheek I'm hoping but there's alway something that you missed that comes up but just had a thought I have also bought a nice little motor gearbox which is half the size of the Hornby unit and also a radio control micro servo with all metal gears which is also a possibility so still a few irons in the fire ha grandad would have used that expression no doubt being a black smith that railway prog on BBC tv showed how they made wood screws from square bar must try that some time and it's on again tonight don't forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 14, 2016 Author Share Posted August 14, 2016 On the Hornby unit I hacked off the motor bracket and remade a new one fitting it with screws, things were looking great and a trial fit was under taken with the chassis and it soon became clear this was not going to work for the motor was hanging too low in the frames so much so that it might well fail on points and crossing so having wrecked a perfectly good Hornby part which ended up in the dust bin, it was time to think again./media/tinymce_upload/4e5cae9c19645b28ddb61ee20afa8596.jpgThis time I had a thought what if we changed the gear layout so that the small drive gear was higher in the gear box this would mean that the motor could be moved higher so that it still mated correctly with the first gear shaft./media/tinymce_upload/32e51cddbf4abe1b9607666b878a157f.jpgAs in the drawings here Fig 1Is that of the Hornby lay out.Fig 2Is the proposed new layout I made a start on the new servo motor unit and if this works out ok it will allow me to build the cab up as a working cab with my flickering fire light idea for the replacement of the Hornby red and green light system. A block of brass was marked out and the first milling operation was carried out.As further machining took place even if it didn’t work it was looking good./media/tinymce_upload/bc28ede9d72224f6d995688ef555121e.jpg /media/tinymce_upload/1af3ccdf32190b347bc4f86ed02c4713.jpgWith all the main machining done to the gear box housing the relevant parts were assembled as in the pictures here./media/tinymce_upload/73478ada4512dcadba9f3f5dd4cb399f.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/d10542df7959ca8267d0ee5ffe02ccba.jpgThe only part left to make was the clap bracket that holds the gears in place this bracket is fixed with 2 screws just like the Hornby one.And with the complete servo unit fitted in the chassis you could see straight away that this was a better idea and the end of the motor can only just been seen./media/tinymce_upload/69ef16e3d1740e3afb45afa9f1aad59c.jpg/media/tinymce_upload/9a0ef6328058c60bb37bba6c823fe7b1.jpgI haven’t checked to see if the loco body fits any better but need to check a few other things first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 I know my input doesn't help at all but I just have to say something, but words fail me. 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulver Posted August 14, 2016 Share Posted August 14, 2016 Absolutely, WTD ! Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choralc Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Is this akin to magic? I apparently can't even tighten a bolt without snapping off the hex head. May have to get ONE new wheel for a Hornby P2 with new bolt but that's why this thread is so magical to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 That is looking really good Ken. The ability to think in technicolour 3-D then translate those thoughts into drawings and parts must help. Looking forward to seeing it under test.Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzza Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Hi Gowest,I always love your work. Been away from the forum for a while and have just read 9 pages of the B12 (S69) thread.Inside cylinder OO live steam - love it.Sorry to live out my engineering dreams through you, but I cant wait to see the next instalment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 I'm no engineer, but even I can see that the item in the first post on this page (posted at 20:41 yesterday) is by a long chalk far inferior to the new part/s you have made. "Amazing" and "good grief" and "blimey" etc. come to mind. Well done. R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 Now just reading all the postings and the strong will from you all to make this project work and the engine run as we would all like I had to try a fit for peace of mind./media/tinymce_upload/1834685b792962a12c95071a38d6be56.jpgAfter some chopping away of unwanted bottom section boiler barrel the chassis with the servo was fitted and I am pleased with the result it now leaves the cab free of parts and my little crew will have space to work. It has been said that these engines did have very big cabs why that was I don’t know maybe others here might have the answer?/media/tinymce_upload/0413ede794f7a0972f8d4e5478a743a4.jpgNot the best of pictures but a cab with no motor showing, before with the Hornby unit with the un modified the motor came to the end of the cab floor.The next problem is the oil tank and valve housing which is not going to fit in the smoke box so problems up the front end now.What I need to do now is finish the valve shaft and drill them holes for the cylinder steam passage ways and see if the engine will run. What do you think will it or wont it? /media/tinymce_upload/212061a7de5dca3735153ae0d56feaa0.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Hey Gowest I bet you never thought you'd have groupies 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 15, 2016 Author Share Posted August 15, 2016 To all you that have left postings witth only the best thoughts with regard to this project I will feel I have let you all down if in the next few postings I have to report that the engine won't run and that will be the end of it, granddads engine a none runner I don't like to think it's a failure as this was in some way a link to him and all his work mates that made these and other engines along with the SR and GWR.my first train set a Tri ang was bought from that big toy shop in London back in 1952 and I still have it but even walking to school I would dream of a train set not with an electric motor but in full steam its Hornby and the little man in his shed that should take the credit for coming up with the design of these live steam engines all I do is take the main idea and with a little change here and there produce a new model that Hornby could and one day might produce which others would love to add to there collection.but we have a way to go on this project and reminds me of a radar we built that reports came back to say that they couldn't find the harbour entrance on the screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 As Ken says live steam in 00 was invented in a shed ... by a certain Richard Hallam in 1968. Apparently the marketing was then taken on by Hornby on a royalties basis and so far Mr H has yet to make a fortune from it. I refuse to believe that this engine won't run and could end up as an ornament. As I see progress it will run better than the original design and could be the basis of Hornby Live Steam Mk2. Grandad and his mates will be proud. With group ideas to help you if you get stymied on a problem and you doing the workshop stuff this project will succeed. ...remember what they said about model jet engines, even Rolls Royce poo-poo'd the idea saying it was impossible and look where these motors are now thanks to exotic materials, new processes like 3-d printing of metals and sub miniature components like roller and ball bearings, along with computer fluid dynamics to model the internal flows - all magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huwsie Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 Just read through this entire thread from the start, and I am just completely abashed.... This is modelling skills in the extreme, and what a truly amazing project...I certainly hope to see this running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walkingthedog Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 If all else fails and the loco doesn't run I think you should cosmetically finish it as a tribute to your grandad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 Now getting close to running the chassis on compressed air, the valve rod has been completed with the hole drilled in place for the exhaust steam and the small ear silver soldered in place which drives the rotating valve a very clever part of the Hornby live steam engines design and no need to fiddle with this part but will go over how it all works a little bit./media/tinymce_upload/6257f8ddd909a0b61ea00fb8fcfc9e34.jpgThe pictures here show the end of the valve rod with the hole and ear for the rotating valve. /media/tinymce_upload/4df863ef7d94d01471ae0fa23abed818.jpgThe valve has a star shape section recessed in the centre which takes the exhaust steam away from the cylinders while the 4 small holes which can be seen have holes leading from them to the outside edge of the valve and are for the incoming steam to the cylinders a clever little part and at the heart of the engine./media/tinymce_upload/b96ddf77c8aac8ed307e7770b68a3e25.jpgWith the valve in place you might just make out one of the holes in the side at about 11 o’clock where the steam enters the valve to be distributed to the cylinders via the corresponding holes in the valve body port face./media/tinymce_upload/04c83c359c58b1ecf578ff946076e633.jpgThe valve is held tight to the valve face by a pressure pad and spring along with the brass cover and 4 screws and a gasket.I must show you this which is a picture of Goodmayes Signal box made for me by my fathers work mate Jock for my railway./media/tinymce_upload/0a057dafaf716b7c2d7d6edf80a06b65.jpgDad would take me to work with him some times telling me all about the signals and how they controlled the trains along with track circuiting to avid crashes and accidents.Goodmayes was a small yard with some sidings and they often had a small tank engine to move wagons about.One day the drier of a light engine told the fire if he liked he could shunt a few wagons while he went into the signal box for a cup of tea I’ve been in that mess room dad would call it as young boy to eat my sandwiches.On this day the driver had just sat down with his tea and whoosh steam and dust came crashing through the door the old driver jumped up to see what had happened and out side was the fireman looking very worried he had got the engine off the track onto track bed running thought some catch points smashing a wagon and its contents all over the track which were Phillips sticker soles very popular in them days for mending your own shoes, we had hundreds of them in the shed kept the family in shoes for years./media/tinymce_upload/00f4f010ac4326986f476b27384b5111.jpgYou can see dads written on the bottom of the model “Goodmayes Xmas 1954 nights” Not there now no box no sidings all long gone now just a B&Q or something./media/tinymce_upload/e9d740ce5717050900542a3550b8d4e4.jpgStill where did we get to yes the vale system I have a feeling this part of the engine will be tight for space in the smoke box so will need to make the cover a bit smaller one way to reduce the overall size was to machine back the cover so the fixing screws didn’t stick out as in this picture. Next is that steam passages and end covers then see if it runs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 It's always been interesting to read this thread - now it's exciting as well! How lovely to have your signal box still. I think I must have been a hooligan as a child as all my toys (of that time) are long gone. I've got some new ones now. Looking very good Ken. R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Thats coming together well Ken. I hope the dry runs go as planned. Once its up and running then you can look closer at squeezing it under the body. I love to hear stories from the old days. Mind you having spoken to my daughters boyfriend who was a shunter at Norwich a good few years ago things havent changed that much as he told tales about 'lapses of concentration' closely followed by minor disasters In the yard. Once he left it ticking over on the buffers but with the wheels still going round slowly, until a mate asked him what the squeeling noise was (tyres wearing a groove in the rails), muchly embarrassed. There were loads more little incidents that went unpunished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gowest Posted August 20, 2016 Author Share Posted August 20, 2016 Getting it in the body will be a problem no doubt as you say we will see in time, do you remember me saying that when trying to rotate the wheels there was a little drag on the Pistons well it's just dawned on me now that it's because the Pistons have no place to expell the air in the cylinders as they have no ports drilled yet so are acting against compressed air Silly chap I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 ...do you remember me saying that when trying to rotate the wheels there was a little drag on the Pistons well it's just dawned on me now that it's because the Pistons have no place to expell the air in the cylinders as they have no ports drilled yet so are acting against compressed air...Let me think about that Ken......I think you may have invented the coal fired bike tyre pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Ha-ha, this is better than Morecambe and Wise. R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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