MERG and TT120 decoders

[Steve-353799]

Hi does anyone know if MERG are doing anything that connects with the new hornby decoders automation wise such as triggering points/signals ABC stuff?

Ta,

Steve

PS I would like to automate my layout as much as possible in a somewhat easy manner yum

[96RAF]

This has been spoken about in general on the forum before.

The HM7K decoders have no direct interaction with points and signals, etc. Such interaction of loco to layout is usually by way of a track based loco detection system, applicable to any locos, such as reed switches, IR sensors, current detection, RFID, etc.

The only direct interaction any decoder can have is if it supports ADCC/ABC where the decoder detects a disparate offset of voltage in the DCC signal and reacts according to settings in the decoder, such as a station stop or auto-reverse shuttle.

Merg produces various modules for automatic operation.

Generally auto operation outwith ABC also requires some programmed scripting to act upon the track trigger. Typical programs being iTrain, Train Controller, Rocrail, JMRI, TGG.

[Pendragon Sailing]

Hi does anyone know if MERG are doing anything that connects with the new hornby decoders automation wise such as triggering points/signals ABC stuff?

Ta,

Steve

PS I would like to automate my layout as much as possible in a somewhat easy manner yum

 

 

Personally, I would struggle to put “automated layout” and “easy” in the same sentence! 😨

[Yelrow]

He did say somewhat easy. Anything automated, i admit, fills me with dread, as in my case, it usually brings a load of probs above my skill set.

[Steve-353799]

This has been spoken about in general on the forum before.

The HM7K decoders have no direct interaction with points and signals, etc. Such interaction of loco to layout is usually by way of a track based loco detection system, applicable to any locos, such as reed switches, IR sensors, current detection, RFID, etc.

The only direct interaction any decoder can have is if it supports ADCC/ABC where the decoder detects a disparate offset of voltage in the DCC signal and reacts according to settings in the decoder, such as a station stop or auto-reverse shuttle.

Merg produces various modules for automatic operation.

Generally auto operation outwith ABC also requires some programmed scripting to act upon the track trigger. Typical programs being iTrain, Train Controller, Rocrail, JMRI, TGG.

 

 

Thanks Raf I will copy and paste this into my word document for safe keeping!

[Steve-353799]

Hi does anyone know if MERG are doing anything that connects with the new hornby decoders automation wise such as triggering points/signals ABC stuff?

Ta,

Steve

PS I would like to automate my layout as much as possible in a somewhat easy manner yum

Personally, I would struggle to put “automated layout” and “easy” in the same sentence! 😨

 

 

LOL grin

 

 

[Steve-353799]

He did say somewhat easy. Anything automated, i admit, fills me with dread, as in my case, it usually brings a load of probs above my skill set.

 

 

Ha Ha smile

[Steve-353799]

"The HM7K decoders have no direct interaction with points and signals, etc. Such interaction of loco to layout is usually by way of a track based loco detection system, applicable to any locos, such as reed switches, IR sensors, current detection, RFID, etc."

Am I correct in thinking that the conventional way of doing DCC is by using a hand control which sends so many pulses along the track so when doing block detection where the track has rails that are cut or fishplates are plastic this controls the train. So when using JMRI to send a loco from one end of your layout to another the computer will control the other trians as well giving a safe journey for all.

So with the Hornby HM7K decoders using blutooth I take it you can't control the train the same using JMRI as it doesn't work with pulses along the track?

[96RAF]

Try not to confuse block control with loco detection.

Block control means that the track is divided up into isolated or semi-isolated sections. These can be linked to some form of control box that talks to a PC running a software package or if the decoder in the loco supports it use of ADCC/ABC can control the loco.

To learn more about ADCC/ABC look on the Lenz website or see the appendix in the HM7K decoder manual.

There are various ways of telling the detection control box that a train has passed, Reed switches, IR sensors, etc or current detectors, RFID detectors, etc.

There are so many ways of automatically controlling a layout that it is advised to have a read of the many sources available including the various train control package manuals.

[P-Henny]

You are completely off the mark with your pulses analogy. Loco detection and automated control is nothing like that.

You are also mixing up ABC with layout wide automation with your reference to cut rails.

ABC is a dedicated decoder function that only interacts with one single specific loco and not across many locos on a layout. An example of ABC would be to stop a specific loco automatically in a station or at a red signal, it does not then interact with other locos on the layout.

With your reference to pulses in the track signal you may be thinking of Railcom, but Railcom needs specialist hardware to function which is not built into Hornby controllers. Railcom is also loco Decoder specific, in that not all decoders support Railcom as standard. Railcom was developed by Lenz who are a Hornby competitor, so unlikely to make an appearance in mainstay Hornby products.

In principle, Hornby products are yet to fully embrace full automation that some other branded products do. If you want to go fully automated, you really need to research the topic via Google and look at other brands and their published solutions. Most of which are not mix & match, thus once a branded solution is decided upon you are stuck with that brand.

However, I have purposely avoided going into the automation that 96RAF has been developing with forum member St1ngr4y as this solution is not yet in the commercial domain that can be purchased. It is in prototype stage only at the present time. But this system uses track sensors (either magnetic or IR) that feed into a PC software platform that then controls trains using standard DCC. No track pulses are involved in this system.

[96RAF]

As Paul states TGG, written by Stingray, is very similar to Rail-master, but more so and done better (in my option).

Loco detection is achieved as stated, by track sensors so any loco passing by will trip the sensor then TGG knows where each train is and by way of simple scripts (programs written in basic English) knows where they are en-route. No track breaks are required. The bonus is these programs are sensor sequenced so if a train never gets to a sensor the program of events waits for further instructions. With RM the sequencing is timed and if a loco doesn’t turn up then it all goes per shaped as the clock ticks on, points change, signals alter, other locos proceed, etc towards chaos.

A study is in hand as to how TGG should best be developed into the gen-pop community, as well as possible integration into HM7K Bluetooth territory.

[Steve-353799]

Thanks guys it all sounds fascinating. The proverbial penny keeps dropping bit by bit.

Much appreciated!

So it looks like either infra red or RFID tags is the way to go with JMRI for me.

thanks,

Steve.

[96RAF]

IR is a 3-pin sensor that needs external power, hence folk lean towards Arduino or RasPi processor modules to provide that. RFID obviously needs a reader device and an interface with the train ’app’.

Other train apps use a variety of sensing methods - see their manuals.

TGG in basic form uses 2-pin Reed switches thru’ a Leo Bodnar BBI-32 switch box (Google it) but has developed a bespoke isolation kit to enable use of 3-pin sensors like IR or Hall Effect devices. Reed switches and Hall Effect sensors are triggered by loco mounted magnets. IR by interrupting the beam between TX and RX elements of the device. RFID by reading a loco mounted ID tag.

The hardware to support loco detection for auto operations can be expensive so you have to do your homework and read up about all the options before diving in.

[Tom-367316]

I've approached MERG many times regarding automation and wireless driven locos, they were not very welcoming at all. They have a canbus driven dcc system that totally flies in the face of dcc completely, and does not integrate at all.

With this HM 7000 system, Hornby have opened the marketplace for dcc to a whole new realm of modellers and opened their tri=state decoders to quad-state decoders. With battery/bluetooth control of locos which are not track powered and held by the restraints of deskbound controllers and complicated track power components.

[Steve-353799]

Things have developed a pace as they are prone to do when one is learning something new.

Because I really like the idea of having the option to fully automate my train layout, I am now looking at using the programme called iTrain to control my layout with the highly recommended Roco Z21 controller. And it looks as if I’ll be going down the LocoNet route using Yamorc components.

[dBerriff]

MERG CBUS does support DCC control. I dislike all the acronyms but here we go. You can use JMRI into a CAN-USB4 to pass DCC control messages onto the bus and a CAN-CMD to receive messages and output DCC to the track.  MERG software is integrated into JMRI and this side works reliably in my experience over the last year. If you prefer a hand-control MERG has a CAN-CAB.

I am no fan of CBUS but we should be factually correct.