Wiring point motors to Decoders and Controllers

[Chappers_old_bean]

I am constructiong a layout with multiple points / turnouts operated by recessed / under mounted R8014 motors, connected to R8247 Point decoders (4 per unit)

Planned to use an R8213 Select DCC Controller purely for this task, not for loco control

Does anyone have a wiring diagram as need to connect 3+ R8247 decoders to the R8213 DCC Select Controller

Any pointers (excuse pun) would be very much appriciated

Thanks

Mark C

PS have also posted under Hornby DCC

Mod note - your post moved to DCC section where it belongs and the duplicate post deleted.

[P-Henny]

It really couldn't be simplier.

Take the track output of the Select and terminate it on a 2 way terminal strip (choc-block). Now take three wire pairs and wire them into the same 2 way terminal strip so that the three pairs radiate in a star wiring configuration from the Select track output in parallel. The three pairs then terminate on each track input of the three R8247 Accessory Decoders.

Note that each of the three R8247 Accessory Decoders will need to be configured individually on their own first before they are wired in parallel via the 2 way terminal strip.

Being a Select, the first R8247 will need to be addressed as 61 to 64, the 2nd as 65 to 68 and the third as 69 to 72.

If more than three R8247 Accessory Decoders are required, then just follow the same numbering sequence in fours i.e 73 to 76, 77 to 80 etc noting that the maximum address supported by the Select is 99.

If the R8014 point motors only operate in one direction and not the other then you have crossed the common return with one of the other wires. The common return (centre tap of the R8014 twin coils) terminates on the C terminal on the R8247.

The internal R8247 CDU is weak and requires the R8014 point motors to be perfectly aligned with the Hornby point operating bar. Perfect alignment can be achieved by mounting the motor directly to the point using the four metal lugs on the motor frame. This type of mounting although the most efficient method requires a suitably sized square hole to be cut in the baseboard directly under the point.

EDIT: Your use of the term "recessed" suggests that the four lug mounting method is the method you have already employed.

EDIT: 96RAF's reply below includes additional wiring detail for the R8014 point motors not included in my reply. Take special notice of his comment regarding Select firmware level issues with version 1.1 (11). The firmware is displayed as the very first number to appear on screen when the Select is powered up.

[96RAF]

The Select Track terminals are wired to each R8247 A-B terminals in a parallel arrangement. Each point motor is wired to the 3-terminals of each port of the R8247. It is possible to wire a pair of motors to one port say for a loop to loop crossover where you want both points to fire together.

The common wire goes to C and the individual coils go to + and -, respectively. Note the +/- are not polarities, simply direction (< and >).

You are likely aware the Select point address numbering starts at 61 in multiples of four, I.E. 1st acc decoder is address 61-64, 2nd is 65-68, 3rd is 69-72, 4th is 73-76, and so on.

This assumes your Select has up to date firmware.

If your Select has firmware 11 (v1.1) then you should not use it to operate acc decoders as that version has a bug that can damage the R8247. Simply get the Select updated by return to works at Hornby if required. Latest version is 16 (v1.6) or possibly 20 (v2.0) if the recent facelifted model.

Paul typing at the same time but quicker.

[Chappers_old_bean]

Hi P-Henny and 96RAF

Thank you both so much for clarifcation of connection of the R8247

very much appriciated

I noted some place???!!

Some decoders have a R8216 label, but are actually R8247

If stamped 50/07 on body they are actually R8247!!

Maybe you could confirm

The one's I have obtained from various souces all have the 50/07 marking

Hope this is OK

The Select I have when powered up displays 20, followed by 30 then 03 ready to go, box states 'Now fitted with Updated Firmware Version 6'

I also have second Select which has a faulty LED display (not all digits cal be read) which i understand cannot be repaired. Is it possible to use the Select in another way or should i just discard it as knackered

Thanks again for reply's found them very useful indeed

[P-Henny]

The 20 is the very latest version 2.0 facelift Select and is good to go.

I will let 96RAF comment on the R8247 labelling.

If you can't read the display on the faulty Select, then IMO the only possible useful use is a 'doorstop'. May not even be useful for spare parts as the facelift Select may have different internals ... 96RAF can confirm or not.

[96RAF]

Here is a tip for checking if it is the screen or the buttons. Power up the Select whilst holding the Function button. The Select will go thru’ a self check and light every pixel on the display. After that you can press all the buttons and twiddle knob to see a response. To recover from this simply power down and restart normally.

As for the screen it is likely the method of connecting the screen to the motherboard is the problem . This is achieved by way of zebra strips, a layer of conducting and insulating rubber strips in a block. This tear down shows how to get to these strips http://www.halton96th.org.uk/page11.html

They peel off carefully and can be cleaned with IPA. Once fully dry then reassemble and test.

Your other Select at v20 is the latest revision on a face lifted model, so fully fit.

You are correct about the R8216/8247 mislabelling. A simple way to check which model it is - R8216 is fixed pulse output. R8247 can be set for pulse or continuous.

[Brew Man]

The 20 is the very latest version 2.0 facelift Select and is good to go.

I will let 96RAF comment on the R8247 labelling.

If you can't read the display on the faulty Select, then IMO the only possible useful use is a 'doorstop'. May not even be useful for spare parts as the facelift Select may have different internals ... 96RAF can confirm or not.

 

 

Not even a door stop, they are very light.

[96RAF]

The 20 is the very latest version 2.0 facelift Select and is good to go.

I will let 96RAF comment on the R8247 labelling.

If you can't read the display on the faulty Select, then IMO the only possible useful use is a 'doorstop'. May not even be useful for spare parts as the facelift Select may have different internals ... 96RAF can confirm or not.

Not even a door stop, they are very light.

 

 

But once updated they are a very capable basic controller, their only ‘cons’ being restricted addressing (locos 1-59 and accessories 61-99) as well as only being able to write to CVs, but not read back from them, this being due to the fact Select essentially programs on the main (PoM).

[Brew Man]

Yes, being able to read CVs would be a big improvement. I've found a good use for my Select. I've recently added goods sidings to my layout on the other side of the void away from the main control area. I have kept control for points and decouplers near to the sidings as it would be a bit daft trying to control it all from several feet away. So my Select will be used in Walkabout mode just for shunting operations.

[96RAF]

Yes, being able to read CVs would be a big improvement. …

 

 

Not possible using PoM.

[Brew Man]

Why is that then if there is nothing else on the track?

[ntpntpntp]

Programming on the Main (PoM) is not the same as using a programming track.

PoM is designed for "in flight" adjustments and things like setting/releasing consists when the loco is on the layout, and you cannot read CVs back. PoM requires that you can address the loco decoder first in order to make the changes, so you need to know its current address.

Programming Track mode allows you to read and write all the CVs (including its main address) without the need to know the address of the decoder first. Hence expected to be used with one decoder in isolation.

Some basic DCC systems do actually use Programming Track mode on their main track output but as write-only, hence the need to remove all other locos before trying to program one loco. For example, Bachmann EZ-Command, old Fleischmann LokBoss (I have one of those :) ) Even the popular and well-featured NCE PowerCab only has one track output for both layout or programming track unless you use a specific AutoSwitch addon- board to separate the programming function.

[LTSR_NSE]

The issue is that reading CVs is essentially a data ‘scraping/sniffing’ action, therefore not decoder address targeted like PoM communications have to be.

As Select’s firmware is written to only utilise PoM communications, it cannot perform the necessary action.

If the Select had this additional action available, the user would have to connect the Select to an isolated section of track, since it only has a single track connection.