Prince of Wales Comm problem

[TechImp]

Hi everyone! I hope this is the most appropriate section to post this in.

I have a new Prince of Wales loco which is quite nice except initially, it did not work on my layout.

Bluetooth scanning did not locate it and RailMaster would not recognise it. I checked power supply on pins 21 and 22 (strange for a 21 pin decoder but) and all ok at 18v ac, so emailed Hornby tech support thinking the decoder must be faulty.

However, trying again the next day, lo and behold Bluetooth picked it up when scanned. All worked fine on Bluetooth but not on Railmaster. Yes CV12 was set to “0” via Bluetooth. I tried everything I could think of, reloaded RM, reset laptop, reloaded the HM7k all to no avail. I updated cv1 to 024 via RM but could not get it to read back. Oddly it worked for a time on RM but when I exited the loco setup it stopped. I persevered for a time during which I could have torn my hair out (but don’t have much) and gave up.

As the eternal optimist I tried again this morning, and once again quite magically, it worked on both RM and Bluetooth, I could hardly believe it. Unfortunately, when I attempted to read CV’s on RM it still does not work. As the Bluetooth app indicates the loco address has changed to 024, it appears that I can write to it, but reading CV’s is still not possible on RM.

I can read other loco CV’s and have used HM7k decoders in several locos with no problems – all still work ok.

It appears, in my humble opinion, that there must be a fault in the decoder, so I await tech support, unless I have overlooked something which I am sure will be pointed out.

[TechImp]

With some disappointment, I have had virtually no help from tech support. Some suggestions that I had already tried and then finally told that the HM7000 decoder CV’s cannot be accessed using RailMaster software.

I have several HM7000 decoders which work perfectly and quite accessible using RM to write and read CV’s.

It was suggested earlier that as I can access CV’s via Bluetooth, there is no need to using RM. This is quite true, but I prefer using RM to control my setup, and expect what I pay for to work properly.

A reasonable course of action would have been to post the decoder back to Hornby for evaluation, though not cheap from Western Australia.

[Fishmanoz]

Have you emailed George via HM Support?

[96RAF]

1 hour ago, TechImp said:

told that the HM7000 decoder CV’s cannot be accessed using RailMaster software.

Complete cobblers - All RM does is read from and write to a dcc decoder, no different to any other decoder. The only difference being RM maintains a catalogue of decoders so it can post up a custom list of CVs used by that decoder.

There is no need to read any decoder in RM, just write blind to whichever CV you want to change.

I might suggest you have the decoder installed wrong. It is possible to mount it either Compact or Reversed - see the famous manual. If installed incorrectly then it will not work. If your other 7K decoders are working OK then do as Fishy suggests and see if George will replace it without the need to return the duff one.

 

[TechImp]

I emailed tech support.

The decoder (21 pin - difficult to install incorrectly) came installed in Prince of Wales and works perfectly otherwise for the moment, despite my nit picking.

Does George have a email address? Why would tech support not forward my email to the relevant expert?

Thank you Fishmanoz and RAF.

I just received another email advising me to contact Rail master. Beginning to lose interest I am afraid.

[LTSR_NSE]

hm.customercare@hornby.com is the direct support email address for HM7000 issues.

[96RAF]

2 hours ago, TechImp said:

I just received another email advising me to contact Rail master

Hornby Hobbies provides the hardware - controllers, decoders, etc.

RM is a software product provided by, sold by, and supported by HRMS and they have no direct link to HH.

As your 'problem' is software related then customer services is correct in pushing you over the HRMS.

If it can be shown that the decoder is duff then the decoder comes back within George's bailiwick.

 

[TechImp]

If I can read my other decoders, including HM7k devices using RM, that surely indicates the decoder at fault. Tech support are well aware of all that but have taken a somewhat devious approach to my problem.

I have to say my faith is rather shaken by misleading statements coming from tech support, that appear to be avoiding responsibility. 

Thank you for the link LTSR_NR.

[Fishmanoz]

Just to say that Tech Support trying to avoid responsibility is not consistent with the experience of many other forum users, all the way to no quibble replacement of HM7000 decoders. 

[Brew Man]

As mentioned above, for anything HM7000-related it is best to go directly to hm.customercare@hornby.com. George who heads the development team is very responsive.

[TechImp]

Thanks Brew Man. 

[rpjallan]

I hope you get this sorted out. Let us know how you go.

[TechImp]

Well rpjallan, no good news. The following conclusions are arrived at.

1)        Although tech support may have helped many others, as is their intended brief, their help has not been extended to me. Telling me that Railmaster cannot read/write CV’s from HM7000 decoders that are advertised as NMRA compliant is somewhat misleading. Re directing me to Railmaster was never going to achieve anything.

 

2)        I have not heard from “George”, although I did give him the option of not replying if he considered my situation “trivial”.

 

3)        It is possible that I am just not believed, seeking that to which I have no honest claim.

Although my loco is operational despite this small disadvantage, I have paid Aust$500.00 for an article that doesn’t work strictly as advertised. As a fan and admirer of Hornby since childhood, I find this a little disappointing. I have purchased 26 Hornby locos over the last 10 years and have two more on pre-order. This doesn’t include all the rolling stock etc.

 

[96RAF]

Your whole posting history indicates you have not grasped the concept of either HM7K modes or the way RM has to be configured to read these or any other make decoders.

As I posted earlier HRMS is a sub-contractor that designed and markets the RM software. Hornby Hobbies only looks after the associated hardware. Customer services will point a query to the relevant area if they cannot help directly.

The HM7K decoders are NMRA compliant as is the Elite and eLink, but that doesn't mean to say RM will automatically read any decoder. These definitions have to be lodged in the RM decoder database before RM can auto-recognise them when it reads CVs 7 and 8. As I posted earlier the problem lies with HRMS.

As to direct use on DCC have you given the decoder a DCC address in the app loco settings page and after synching the CVs does that address show up in the CV listings.

There is lots of historic advice on the RM forum about blind writing to an unlisted decoder in RM and not to try CV reading when RM does not recognise a decoder.

If you gave George the option not to reply then maybe he is in agreement with the above. If you believe you need a positive response email him again referring to your last comms.

With these problems it is a simple matter of taking the various elements and knocking them on the head sequentially. In your case, get the decoder set up and working in the app. That proves the decoder is OK and excludes George.

Then confirm it has taken your chosen address as above and switch the decoder to DCC in the app.

You do not say if you are using an Elite with RM or have the eLink. If Elite you can prove the decoder on DCC outwith RM.

In RM you just have to add the loco manually until HRMS get their act together. The promised update (due last xmas) is obviously taking longer than advertised to release. If you are still having problems just delete the loco from RM and re-add it. This problem has also been covered many times on the RM forum.

Try that and report back.

 

[TechImp]

Ignoring your rather insulting opening sentence, I have used many different decoders with Railmaster and yes it does not read/write CV’s of some although it does recognize them and happily operates them. This should imply to you that I am aware of the write/read problems incurred in this. This would have to be expected because they are not Hornby. I use mainly ESU decoders and RM again interacts quite happily with those. Once again this should make it obvious that I have entered quite successfully these decoders into RM and they all operate wonderfully.

However, as the HM7k are Hornby designed it is not unreasonable to expect RM to be completely compatible. If you had actually read my original post, you would understand that this particular decoder was dodgy from the start, but now works perfectly in DCC and Bluetooth modes. Also reiterating, this is the 3^rd or 4^th HM7k decoder that I managed to “grasp” quite easily and all of them interrogate quite well with RM (and Bluetooth app).

The point is that if they all work, why does this one not? My years of training and experience indicate to me that this decoder has a problem. Yes, it can be utilized and that is how it looks it has to be despite this small flaw. Are you implying that HM7k are not listed in RM? I would find that to be incredible to be marketed so.

If this is a fault with RM it is very selective. Anyway, I did not post looking for an argument and thought very carefully before answering again at all.

[Fishmanoz]

With Hornby and HRMS being separate, and no RM update since release of HM7000 decoders, it is not surprising that they are yet to be listed in RM. hopefully that will be rectified when the overdue major RM update is released.

In the meantime, manual entry is going to be the order of the day.

Might I suggest (another?) email to George pointing out the latest on your difficulties with this particular decoder and the difference to your others with no problems?

[TechImp]

Hi Fishmanoz and thank you for your reply. Well there is the key I suppose RM has not listed the HM7k decoder. I would have assumed in my ignorance though, that the HM7k  would have similar/identical characteristics to previous Hornby decoders. Many people would have been misled by that including myself.

This was reinforced by my previous experience with HM7k decoders whereby they all performed as expected. I don't think another email to George would be productive as he is already aware of my problem and has not deemed to reply.

I must admit to being sorry to have brought the issue up at all, particularly as I may have upset the person at tech support with my obstinance. I can alter the CV's in bluetooth mode and run in DCC quite happily, so I think it is best left at that.

Anyway thanks again.

[96RAF]

I did read your original post of the 1st April and noted that you committed the 3 cardinal sins of reloading RM, laptop and HM | DCC. The forum has often advised against the need ever to do that for a perceived decoder fault.

You say it works in bluetooth and DCC modes but you still haven't said what controller is being used with RM or if you have a separate DCC controller of another make/model.

At risk of repeating myself and echoing Fishy until RM is updated to include the HM7K definitions then RM will only be able to blind read rather than read a custom CV set.

Again if you are disatisfied with that decoder email George, tell him it is playing up and he will replace it.

[TechImp]

I am using elink and also at the risk of repeating myself, why does it read everything else except this particular one? There must be a very subtle difference somewhere but as I have already stated it works to all intents and purposes so let's just leave it at that.

[96RAF]

1 hour ago, TechImp said:

I am using elink and also at the risk of repeating myself, why does it read everything else except this particular one? There must be a very subtle difference somewhere but as I have already stated it works to all intents and purposes so let's just leave it at that.

Had you been using an Elite then it would have been useful to prove the decoder or not outwith RM. Final question. The decoder isn't in an unpowered car is it, because these decoders need a load to read-back.

[TechImp]

The decoder is in a Prince of Wales loco that was purchased on pre-order quite a while ago and delivered only recently. I am not sure why I would have it in an unpowered car? I use the programming track when attempting CV access. As I have stated previously, all my other HM7k decoders are in locos and none have this CV problem with RM.

[Brew Man]

Decoders are sometimes fitted to non-powered cars for operating lights, brake squeal etc.

[TechImp]

That is true Brew Man, I have done it myself using function only decoders but a bit extravagant to use a HM7k I would have thought! 

[Brew Man]

Not if you don't have a DCC controller and want to control everything via the App.

[TechImp]

Very true.