Elite “last chance to buy “

[LTSR_NSE]

2 hours ago, HST Mainline said:

Models come and go, but digital controller going out of the printed catalogue and coming back?

Considering Hornby are (a) wanting to actively promote HM|DCC (HM7000) & (b) trying to change their catalogues to only show mainly new products that will actually be available within 6-12 months…

It seems perfectly reasonable that eLink, Select & Elite are likely to become the forgotten relations (at least in marketing terms) for the foreseeable future.

However it is highly doubtful that they (Select/Elite at least) will actually cease being sold & supported (until an equivalent replacement actually becomes available*) - since that would render the development investment spent on the dongle more than a bit pointless!
 

* Hornby have given no indication there even is any replacement being considered - let alone in development!

Edited April 29 by LTSR_NSE
Grammar

[HST Mainline]

7 hours ago, ColinB said:

Therefore there would be some logic in running the design out.

Exactly. I am not at all surprised if that is the case. 

Personally, I think Hornby should take care not to alienate itself completely from DCC (I do not consider HM7000 using the app and Bluetooth to be DCC as in "the protocol DCC"). As long as HM7000 is a closed system only Hornby can provide, and as long as decoders lack features like true function mapping, output type switching on AUX 3 and 4, and other manufacturers deliver their models with a DCC decoder, it will be impossible for the user to go full HM7000 and Bluetooth. If Hornby does not have a DCC controller, they will push the users into the arms of other manufacturers, and potentially loose them eventually.

HM7000 decoders are excellent, I have several, it is my opinion though, that if you mix and match models from different manufacturers (as people do) the road to full blown Bluetooth control is not without its challenges. If you buy only Hornby models, it is much easier, but not many do just that anymore (I assume).

At the end of the day, I think there is still a role for the Elite (and to some extend the Select) to play. For now.

Edited April 30 by HST Mainline

[dBerriff]

As above.

There is an existing investment in “ legacy” or track-controlled decoders. The Dongle recognises this as what I would judge to be an important part of HM7000 acceptance by existing DCC users. The Dongle is not useable on its own and I would be surprised if Hornby was not working on a controller for it to plug into. Microcontroller hardware has advanced a lot in recent years and with the expertise at HM they should have no problem with designing a replacement for the Elite. Manufacturing and distribution however is not so easy. 

Edited April 30 by dBerriff

[ColinB]

8 hours ago, LTSR_NSE said:

Considering Hornby are (a) wanting to actively promote HM|DCC (HM7000) & (b) trying to change their catalogues to only show mainly new products that will actually be available within 6-12 months…

It seems perfectly reasonable that eLink, Select & Elite are likely to become the forgotten relations (at least in marketing terms) for the foreseeable future.

However it is highly doubtful that they (Select/Elite at least) will actually cease being sold & supported (until an equivalent replacement actually becomes available*) - since that would render the development investment spent on the dongle more than a bit pointless!
 

* Hornby have given no indication there even is any replacement being considered - let alone in development!

Actually I doubt the development of the dongle was that expensive, we had a contractor that we dealt with for radio software design who designed his own. He was a one man show but managed to develop a dongle and produce it on his own with very limited resources. The main investment is in the HM7000 end and the Elite/Select software. The Elite/Select software was already there. Basically the Dongle is just an interface, USB to serial interface with the necessary logic to convert to the Xpress Net logic levels which hardware wise is equivalent to an industry standard. The clever bit is in the App. Either way I don't which way Hornby will go, software resource is limited and expensive and Hornby is a cash limited company. They probably have got a fair bit of their development costs back on the ones they have already sold. Then you have the marketing bit develop the dongle so more people use the App and get used to it, then hope that every one uses HM7000 devices in the future.

Edited April 30 by ColinB

[96RAF]

10 hours ago, HST Mainline said:

I can understand that (to some extend) with regard to the webshop. I do not understand it with regard to the catalogue. If it is not in the printed catalogue, I think it is safe to assume that it is no longer in the program. 

Models come and go, but digital controller going out of the printed catalogue and coming back? Has this happened before?

The Select is a great little controller, I think it has its place in the program.

Not so. The annual catalogue normally only lists that year's new offerings, not the whole range that Hornby makes. This has been very evident in past years and the subject of previous discussion.

[Rallymatt]

That’s also been re-iterated with the latest TT:120 catalogue, it will in future reflect what is planned to be available over the next 12 months (with possible hints to beyond that) rather than a full product listing. I was surprised Hornby didn’t move to use HM branding on the Elite and Select. Or perhaps that will come? 

[HST Mainline]

3 hours ago, 96RAF said:

The annual catalogue normally only lists that year's new offerings, not the whole range that Hornby makes.

Oh okay? This is new to me. My 2024 catalogue contains a section with new items and a section with current program. This is where the Elite is listed along with the rest of the digital products, except the Select.

I have always assumed that the annual catalogue was a complete list of what is in the current range.

[Goathland]

As a Railmaster + eLink DCC user I would like Hornby to look back at their halted plans to put an Xpress socket in an eLink (this information is somewhere in the forum which is where I got it from) so I could use the dongle. Even better would be a cut down Elite with no knobs, no display, existing PCB (as no development cost needed), Xpressnet socket, track and programming outputs, maybe an single emergency stop button, all housed in a simple case like the HM6000 controller. It would replace the eLink but add an Xpressnet socket for the dongle or Select controllers. If the dongle was built in it could be marketed under the HM700 banner. Given that this is all based on existing hardware and firmware, how low could the price be and still make a profit given that you have simplified an Elite down to the bare minimum.

[96RAF]

To get an Elite or eLink into an HM6000 style case would mean a total redesign so you are talking about a new product, not a rehash of an existing one. At present there is no need to integrate the app with RM so such a device is not required. I do agree however there could be a market for a simple dcc controller but an Xpressnet socket would not be required if it incorporated bluetooth, thus the app could talk to it direct and it would talk to the rails.

[DJN]

I bought one in  Hornbys' Bank Holiday sale, for £277.  

Its  firmware is at version 1.45 .

For software am looking into the pros and cons of RailMaster  & JMRI.

 

[Aussie Fred]

At present I use a NCE Power Cab on my layout and have been frustrated by its 2 amp output and it is fairly cumbersome switching from loco to loco amongst other things. My son-in-law (a pom) noted this last time he brought grandchildren down for a "train day", and told me not worry about it, he will fix it. I thought he was going to get me a booster, but on a recent trip to Mother England to visit his family, he came back with a new Elite, he even managed to get the VAT refunded. Seeking advice, will I have an easier time just switching over the layout to the Elite and using the Power Cab just for the programming track, thus retiring the very out of date Select controller. My other thought was to use the Power Cab on the inside track which is totally independent of the main tracks.

Any thoughts please, taking into consideration rule 1.

[dBerriff]

What would I do? Sell the NCE. From the operating point of view it is easier to use a single interface and to get to know it well. The Elite has a dedicated programming track output. If 4A from the Elite is not enough, then buy a booster.

You could also add a Dongle to try the HM7000 app. 

[96RAF]

The Elite will handle power track and programming as well as accessories. You can by way of a special cable hang the Select on as a walkabout (subject to limited addressing) and add a dongle if you want to run regular decoders from the app.

Folk rave about NCE kit and whilst it has a good rep for reliability it appears clunky to use. It is all down to how any particular controller suits your needs as to which is the best to buy. Each user has their own particular requirements.

[Aussie Fred]

Thanks RAF and dBerriff, I will give the Elite a go, It has to be easier and better. Only thing is to make a slide out shelf to put it on, the Power Cab hung from a cradle.