Radius 1 and 2 curves

[ernie03]

Hi

 

I am about to build a simple hornby layout for my granddaughters, 5 & 6 years old.

 

Due to son's instructions, I need to keep board down to 1.0 x 1.52 metres, so main oval will have to be radius 2 (with 3 straights) and 2 innner sidings

 

will be combination of some straights and radius 1.

 

Will 0-4-0 (as in starter set) and 0-6-0 (jinty) locos cope with limited running on radius 1 used in sidings? I assume radius 2 for main oval will not be a problem for them?

 

Thanks

 

[SkyCube]

The cheap Hornby 0-4-0s will be fine with 1st Radius, 0-6-0s from train-sets should be too, but those from the main range (or other manufacturers) might not be.

 

1st radius is a relic from yesteryear, and modern models just aren't designed to use

 

curves that tight. I have 0-6-0s, 2-6-0s etc that won't take anything tighter than 2nd, and even that isn't exactly ideal.

 

Larger models should generally be ok with 2nd radius, but some won't like it much. They shouldn't suffer damage or get completely

 

stuck like they might on R1 though.

[ernie03]

Thanks for info.

 

[oorail]

You might want to look into shelf layouts if space is a concern. They are easy to build and can be installed at various heights. I am in the process of building one in my son's room. You can easily get 2nd and 3rd radius curves between two shelves (eg.

 

corner of a room etc). I put together some photos on YouTube of how I built my main layout in the basement. Its a little different from a large baseboard, but you can build some impressive layouts with the approach without it taking over your house! :)

 

Some

 

of the newer detailed steam locomotives from Hornby and multiple units from various manufacturers do just about get around 2nd radius curves. If space is a concern, you might want to look at the Atlas 18" radius curves, these are a little bit wider radius

 

than 2nd radius track and seem to handle the multiple units better.

 

Have a look at http://www.youtube.com/oorail77 for details

 

Hope that helps

[Gregd99]

I think that R1 is to be avoided whenever possible.... but it is not always possible:-)

 

for info I have a super detail class 08 that is fine on R1 and a class 20 that is likewise fine. The class 20 is not a very realistic model, IMO, but it does

 

cope with tight curves. My Fowler does not enjoy R1.

 

so.... in general I think the more realistic the model the more likely that R2 is the minimum BUT you can find R1 models if you really want them.

[Tankenginetheyounger]

This is something that has been digging at my brain recently too. My 20 yr old Gordon from the Thomas range came with first radius curve and was fine with them. I always assumed the Thomas range would thus be fine alround, but given the advent of Spencer

 

and Murdoch I guess this is no longer the case? Maybe even newer versions of Gordon struggle?

Also, I'd have expected the 'Railroad' range to cope with 1st radius too. Does anyone know if this is the case? Seem pointless to keep manufacturing radius 1

 

if it isn't.

 

On a personal note I think it could have an effect on encouraging young people into the hobby. When I had a first radius train set on a 5'x3' board as a lad it fitted under my bed comfortably. Can't see that working for these 6'x4' trackmats

 

even if they are more interesting operationally

[SkyCube]

I think I've heard somewhere that railroad models are more likely to be ok with R1, even the larger ones. Don't quote me on that though, I can't be sure. Perhaps someone else can confirm.

 

I expect R1 is a little better for younger kids, but that's

 

not where the market is really aimed any more, for better or worse. If you're really tight on space, I'd say go N gauge, as long as the child is the type to be careful with their stuff. 4' should be the bare minimum for a 00 circuit layout I think, even if

 

its 4'X4'.

[81F]

oorail77 said:

You might want to look into shelf layouts if space is a concern. They are easy to build and can be installed at various heights. I am in the process of building one in my son's room. You can easily get 2nd and 3rd radius curves

between two shelves (eg. corner of a room etc). I put together some photos on YouTube of how I built my main layout in the basement. Its a little different from a large baseboard, but you can build some impressive layouts with the approach without it taking

over your house! :)

Some of the newer detailed steam locomotives from Hornby and multiple units from various manufacturers do just about get around 2nd radius curves. If space is a concern, you might want to look at the Atlas 18" radius curves, these

are a little bit wider radius than 2nd radius track and seem to handle the multiple units better.

Have a look at http://www.youtube.com/oorail77 for details

Hope that helps

Most of my layouts have been end to end but you really

need to be quite long 10' x 2' is good in that it allows a 7' scenic section and 3' of hidden siding. However you do need a few more points (to make for interesting shunting) and I'm not sure how flexible you can be with the space available.

If you

are stuck with a continuous run configuration It might be better to have just a single loop of 2nd radius and have more sidings in the middle or a U shape.

[Willie1707822904]

Really interesting topic here and all content is very appreciated.As a guy with limited room hence 1st radius loop to sidings, feel is OK for class 8 shunting and class 20 ok as well but my tank engine does occasionally give a bounce off at points. One question comes to mind. I would like a dmu to run on the inner radius, but can anyone advise before I buy one. It would be a desire to run on inside circuit as have wee stop there but generally use for freight,coal, grain and fuel.

Thanks

Willie

[RDS]

@Willie

I regularly run Class 20 and Class 08 on 1st Radius. Also, Class 70, 66, 37, 47 etc without problems but I do run it as a Model Railway and not like a Scalextric. In the past I have found problems running some steam Loco's on 1st radius but even that was when trying to enter a siding via a point immediately after a 1st radius curve.

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[Rana Temporia]

If you have to use 1st radius due to space constraints (as I do) you are looking at modern 0-4-0 models or older second hand ones. For DMUs the old Tri-ang metro-Cammell was designed for 1st radius as were the Lima 117 and 101. The Hornby Calder Valley unit should be Ok but some have problems with the motor bogie sticking on tight curves. the Hornby Pacer is fine (my two are anyway).

The original Evening Star as a 2-10-0 works fine on 1st radius but none of the modern ones would be. All the original Lima OO locos were fine with 1st radius but I don’t know if the modern Hornby re-vamps are as the motors have changed.

I have a lot of Jouef locos, and 4-6-2, 2-8-2 and 2-10-0 have no issue with 1st radius which was originally within a few mm of their second, their first radius was 12.75” and there were points and crossings for this. My older Tri-ang stock has no problem at all with the 12.75” curves.

Jouef now use Hornby track and their own range has been withdrawn.

[Tony57]

Most locos made before 2000 will handle Radius1 curves, many post 2000 may be ok, its only in the last 10 years that many don't.

The reason why many older models can is because the middle pair of wheels are flangeless or semi flangeless with built in side to side play on the center driver axel, today's locos all have flanged wheels and little side to side play on the axels.

Why do newer members keep restarting old threads instead of starting a new one as this one was started in 2012?

Mod note - we have asked for such lapsed threads to be locked thus forcing a new topic to be raised, but IT do not see it as a priority when they need to be very selective on allocating limited resource to correct those things which are more important.

[The Doc]

@Tony,

"Why do newer members keep restarting old threads instead of starting a new one as this one was started in 2012?"

Because when they start new threads, the new member gets moaned at and told "this question has been asked loads of times before" and "Why not just search the forum instead" so it seems they can't win. It's not exactly very welcoming to new members, is it? Willie asked a very valid question and others have responded positively with their experiences.

[Seacommander]

Because when they start new threads, the new member gets moaned at and told "this question has been asked loads of times before" and "Why not just search the forum instead" so it seems they can't win. It's not exactly very welcoming to new members, is it? Willie asked a very valid question and others have responded positively with their experiences.

I echo your sentiments entirely Doc. The forum Search tool is so 'blunt' for want of a better term that life isn't always long enough to trawl through pages of topics totally unrelated to the query made. Starting a new thread is often the only way to go despite knowing that somewhere in the Forum lurks the answer.

[RDS]

The Forum search tool is so bad, I am always amazed when new members manage to find an old related thread.

There are 2 ways of looking at it. If the old thread perfectly matches the new question, it has probably been answered. If the old thread does not perfectly match, a new thread should be raised but either way, as someone else has said above, the worst thing a new member asking for help can read as an answer, is that the question has been asked before!

The Forum is here to try to help everyone with all levels of experience.

[M. Matthews]

Really interesting topic here and all content is very appreciated.As a guy with limited room hence 1st radius loop to sidings, feel is OK for class 8 shunting and class 20 ok as well but my tank engine does occasionally give a bounce off at points. One question comes to mind. I would like a dmu to run on the inner radius, but can anyone advise before I buy one. It would be a desire to run on inside circuit as have wee stop there but generally use for freight,coal, grain and fuel.

Thanks

Willie

 

 

I have some hidden “off scene” radius 1 sections. In fact, they are marginally tighter than radius 1 as it’s Trix C Track. It also has a reverse curve section so really is worst case scenario. Stock that I have run round them include:

Lima Class 117

Lima Class 67

Lima Class 47

Hornby Class 67

Hornby Class 121

Bachmann Class 166

Bachmann Class 205

Bachmann Class 70

Bachmann Class 24

Bachmann Class 171

Hornby Class 73

Dapol Class 73

Hornby Class 20

The Bachmann 171 has pretty long coaches. In fact I think you’d be hard pushed to find anything longer than these which leads me believe that most multiple units would probably be fine.

The Bachmann class 205 has a solid bar coupling between the unites but still no problem.

All coaches and wagons have been ok for me. Hornby mk4 coaches are also quite long but they make it round ok.

And the Bachmann Class 70, also quite a heft Co-Co unit, no problems so I’d imagine most diesels would be fine.

The only unit that has caused me issues so far is the Hornby class 395 which I suspect is due to the type of coupling.

 

 

[Aussie Fred]

I concur SE, I wanted to look up a simple question last night and got thousands of responses all unrelated, (at least the first 20 or so and then gave up), I then went to Google and got the answer in seconds.

[ModelerXYZ]

Small locos will be alright on radius 1. Everything should be OK on radius 2 because that is the equivilent curve if a set of points. Also, don't try running at too high speed on radius 1, that can cause derailments too.

XYZ

[DarkRedCape]

I try to use R1 curves in my virtual layouts as much as I can. I’ll only ever run Peckett’s and Terrier’s on them, but there is something about these little locos having their own track that I absolutely love.

I plan to add a coal mine to my layout and it will be fitted with R1 only so that it can be used by my NCB Peckett’s.

I do see that R1 is not particularly popular anymore due to how restrictive it is on use of locos, but that’s a big plus for me.

[threelink]

I built a small layout with curves down to 7 inch radius (tighter than R1). All Triang/Hornby/Lima 0-4-0 s and 0-6-0 s ran without difficulty as did a Lima Class 25 with 2 small nicks filed into the chassis side member to clear the gears on the power bogie. The biggest limiting factor was the issue of couplings. Older tension locks, which have a slightly longer hook than newer versions, were fine. The shorter hooks on newer versions clashed on the tightest curves, causing derailments. Short wheelbase and bogie rolling stock ran fine but medium wheelbase did not : the wheels mounted the outside rail on curves and the stock climbed off the track. All the stock was of some age with deeper flanges than the current crop. You should have no problems with Hornby 0-4-0 s, 0-6-0 s and rolling stock on R1 and R2 curves.

[Aussie Fred]

I am going to have to try and get a curve even smaller than R1 (371mm). The best I can do will be 355mm, my boo-boo. When I laid my mainline left and right I used R3 and R2 on the curve but the curve is just after it comes out of station (180 degree) and so the third line just won't make it with R1. So, out will come the flexible track which I haven't used before and I will just have to do it as best I can. Thankfully that line will only have 2 car DMU and EMU as well as 0-2-0 and possibly an occasional 0-3-0, and considering it is straight out of the station, should be going quite slow. What does everyone think of my chances

[threelink]

@AF

I do not think you will have problem so long as your track laying is careful. Transition curves and a bit of super elevation will help. Good luck.

[Brew Man]

I am going to have to try and get a curve even smaller than R1 (371mm). The best I can do will be 355mm, my boo-boo. When I laid my mainline left and right I used R3 and R2 on the curve but the curve is just after it comes out of station (180 degree) and so the third line just won't make it with R1. So, out will come the flexible track which I haven't used before and I will just have to do it as best I can. Thankfully that line will only have 2 car DMU and EMU as well as 0-2-0 and possibly an occasional 0-3-0, and considering it is straight out of the station, should be going quite slow. What does everyone think of my chances

 

 

0-3-0? Have Reliant started making locos? joy

 

 

[Rana Temporia]

0-3-0 continental version of 0-6-0 grinning

[Brew Man]

Do they have the name plate, 'Trotters' on the side? grin