96RAF Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Don’t rush at this JJ. What’s the old saying ... sin in haste - repent at leisure.I will draw up the corner in a bit more detail for you, both the woodwork bit and the track bit.One very important question - can you solder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac-_- Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 @Yelrow, At 77, ducking is not for me, Until the missus lets go and starts chucking stuff ;).Just caught up on the big move JJ, looking very good :).One thing about putting a hinge section on or near a wall, you have too think about what you will be placing on that section.And take into account the height of the highest piece on that section, for at least a foot from the wall (depending on the height), and move your hinge to suit. And one of the things i would have against mounting the hinge at the wall, and would go for mounting it at the left hand side as seen from the photo's (if it where me), then you'd only have to think about the height of things near that joint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 @JJAn improved and hopefully clearer plan for you.Note the links wires have to go across to the hinge edge to allow the flap to lift up.I haven’t shown any support structure other than the hinge batten and the down stop support batten.The rest can be elaborated on as you make progress.The problem with Macs idea of hinging at the left hand end is you have less support for your hinges than there is at the right hand end and you still need to provide a sturdy catch to hold it in the up position.You could just make it lift out and avoid hinges altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac-_- Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Your right RAF, forgot that JJ put the majority of his layout on shelving brackets sunglasses. I personally think the lift out section is the better way forward (if your able too lift it out), less restraints with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CORKY. Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Corky, that's fine, when you are young and mobile, but a pain, when you get old. At 77, ducking is not for me, or many of us. Hence my solution, which Rob, kindly illustrated. I am so old I have 2 pensions .it's not the getting down that's difficult, it's the getting up afterwards. You misled me when you mentioned going back to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted May 13, 2021 Author Share Posted May 13, 2021 @ Rob :- Once again thank you for the drawing!!! 🙂 "One very important question - can you solder?" What is solder??? Nooo only joking!!! 😀 I did used to have a soldering iron but not sure what ever happen to it, yeah I can solder but haven't used 1 in many years!!! May be a bit rusty on using one!!! - It looks like I may have to buy a new 1!!!Might be easier with out hinges but I do like the idea of it lifting up against the wall & on to a catch!!!@ Mac :- Thank you for catching up 🙂 Might be easier to just to lift out - not sure. The long piece is 108.5 cm long by 42cm wide & sort piece is 53cm long by 30 cm wide - this piece I may even cut shorter b/c it is a bit too long!!!😉🚂🚂🚂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 JJ, a friendly tip, Dont buy a cheap soldering iron, as you will live to regret it. Antex 25, or similar, and leaded solder. Copper sleepers aint the easiest things to solder to, and made easier with right tool. Whichever way you go, hinged, or lift out, you will still need these sleepers. No doubt, somebody will tell me they found soldering to them easy. I found they had sort of polish/ sealant on, and once that was off, it became easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 Mine were the same John and I cleaned them up with a fibreglass pencil thingie.A tip as stated earlier is to run the rails across the join, solder to the copper sleepers and then cut at the joint. This makes sure the rails are perfectly aligned . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new lad on block Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 Hi JJ, I would go for a small lift out unit, 600 mm square or there about, my layout is a crawl under, what a pain even with cushioning on the floor.What it did not account for where to put the cup of tea, or plate for sandwiches etc.Take my advice leave room for a small workplace/table for rolling stock etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 If you go for the lift out section JJ then you still need the wall plate for it to rest on but obviously it will be located lower by the thickness of your board and any framing, rather than level when the board is hinged.My slide section is about 450 x 500 mm and fairly heavy with two twin track bridges and support structure but manageable. Finding somewhere to park it where it won’t get damaged is the main problem.Note also that those link wires are not then needed and a different method of connection will be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted May 14, 2021 Author Share Posted May 14, 2021 @ John :- Ok sounds good - I won't go for a cheap Soldering Iron - I'm not sure how much they cost any way!!!@ New Lad :- Yeah I might do the lift out option - yep crawling under is a pain as I discovered!!! On the far side that is where my siding are going to go - where the to big table are plenty of room for both sidings & a small plate for food!!!@ Rob :- Yeah as I said above I might do the life out section - this is going to be fun to do!!! I thinking may be that if I just nail the track to the board on both pieces - then with the small copper plates - the rails could just rest on them to make the contact???🙂🚂🚂🚂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 State the obvious, but the track alignment and gap tolerances must be very tight or you'll have regular derailments to attend to.Enjoy the build, it does sound like fun.Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 Yes good point Al - Thank you 🙂🚂🚂🚂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 @JJThe copper sleepers perform a dual function.They are somewhere to connect your wiring to but more importantly they strengthen the ends of the rails and keep them aligned.It is so easy to catch the ends of normal track and pull the rails out of the chairs when either snagged on your clothing when walking through the gap or when lifting the section out and in.Please buy a decent 25w iron and practice you soldering skills and you will wonder what all the fuss was about. A very necessary skill for modelling and one that is easily learned. Antex irons are good quality and reliable and the tips can be replaced. Beware of cheap shop irons as stated earlier they can have iron tips not decent copper plated ones. Chris wrote a soldering guide which tells you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissaf Posted May 15, 2021 Share Posted May 15, 2021 FAQ - How To Solder for Model Railways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted May 15, 2021 Author Share Posted May 15, 2021 Thank you Chris - that looks helpful 🙂🚂🚂🚂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted May 17, 2021 Author Share Posted May 17, 2021 A little update...As you said Rob about that, joining them 2 pieces of wood & turning it into 1 corner piece - I've done it...As you can see in the photo I have use 6 Dowling rods to connect it with & then on the underside...& also I have got a small piece of metal on 1 side & on the other side a piece of woods...I have decided to go with the 'lift out option' rather than the 'hinge option' b/c I think it will be easier!!! But I'm still looking at your drawing every day just to help me along & I think that I may still need to 'wire it up' using a few spare R8206 which I've got - then when I lifted the corner board back in place I simply plug the track in & away I go or should that be away the Locos go!!!🙂🚂🚂🚂P. s. I've still got to pin the track down yet!!! - Has any one ever used screws to screw the track down??? I seem to remember seeing a photo of some one (can't remember who thou???) on the forum having using screws!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 You are making good progress JJ. For the wiring your R8206 is a workable method and you only need to link from one end.Yelrow is a fan of screwing track down and will know the correct size screws. Using those types of boards means you will have to pilot drill every hole.Your big problem will be aligning the tracks exactly across the gap, so you need something to do that accurately but easily every time you drop that board into place. Folk will give you plenty of suggestions how to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 Tis i, screw man. Yup, i use tiny brass screws , with rounded heads, about 3/8ths long. Always, drill a pilot hole. You Have to go the copper sleeper route. Its the only way, nothing will move, when you drop section in. I then slide my joiners across, which i keep on the fixed track. Perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted May 19, 2021 Author Share Posted May 19, 2021 Thank you Rob & John 🙂You made me laugh when you said "Tis i, screw man" he heBelow is a photo of the Tacks & screws that I've got...which ones should I use???Circle A = Tacks - 15 mm longCircle B = Tacks - 10 mm longCircle C = Screws - 10 mm long (that's all of those I've got in the photo)Circle D = Screws - 3.5 x L16 mm LongCircle E = Screws - 18 mm LongAlso which Gap is the best place to screw the screw in the track???Gap 1Gap 2Gap 3Gap 4Gap 5🙂🤔🚂🚂🚂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 JJ, re screws none, too big. Need a decent hardware store, and box of brass dome headed screws. Your black ones are too fat. As for gap to screw down, too short. You can go to about 4 inches between. More for flexi track. I dont tack or pin, anything. Always screw down. Will try to photo one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo1707820979 Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Jimy, I believe either Hornby or Peco offer the correct screws, in packets, for your purposes. Have a look on their websites or eBay. Save you a lot of messing around with hardware suppliers and maybe getting the wrong stuff. Near the sensitive places I would drill the rails every second rail to be quite sure of rigidity -- maybe for a foot or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Peter's Spares does screws intended for Hornby surface point motors in bags of 100, so unless you are dead set on brass I reckon they'd probably fit the bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 It doesn't matter how many screws you use or how close they are to the rail ends if you do not use the rails soldered to copper sleeper method you will catch the rails at some point and rip them out of the chairs - guaranteed.The only other solid method I have seen is to screw a brass screw under each rail end. adjust the screw to level the rails across the gap and solder rails to screws. This is a tidier but slightly more fiddly method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ73 Posted May 19, 2021 Author Share Posted May 19, 2021 Thank you Jimbo & Brew Man 🙂@ Rob or Chris :- I found this which I'd forgotten I had - will this work with any of its tips???...It called a 'Heated Finishing Tool' & it came with my 3D Printer which I was building a few years ago...A quick link to my vid to a bit more about it... Thank you 🙂🚂🚂🚂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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