I could be induced to purchase more product, if only Hornby would....

[What About The Bee]

EDIT: It is not my intention to make this a thread about the L&MR. I merely used that as a way to explain the inducements. My apologies for being so unclear! 🤷‍♂️

In the Advent Calendar thread, I stated that the current programs that Hornby have installed are not an inducement for me to buy more product.  

That begs the question. What would it take to get me to purchase more product? What could Hornby do?

1) Produce a greater variety of models in my railway of interest. 

My personal interest is the Liverpool and Manchester Railway (LMR). I have everything Hornby has produced so far for the LMR. I have pre-ordered everything they currently intend to produce for the LMR.  In terms of rolling stock, it is in the quantities I can reasonably expect the locomotives to pull, providing me with full consists.   

But if Hornby were to make new LMR models, I would most certainly order them. There are many locomotives that haven't been produced, Planet being the most obvious candidate. Lots of rolling stock is available to model and has not yet been modeled.

Variety is something every one of us would like. Surely every enthusiast would jump at the chance for Hornby to make that special locomotive, that special piece of rolling stock that fits into their layout scheme.  

[speaking of special, examine that diagram in my yellow icon up above. That is Robert Stephenson's Dynamometer car that he used to measure friction in 1818. There exists a large body of the empirical results he obtained using it and a diagram of engineering quality exists. I note the Dynamometer Car used with Mallard is now in its second production run at Rapido.]

2) Produce high fidelity models in my railway of interest.

A child will accept a representative model, using their imagination to fill in the details. As an adult, I want high fidelity to the prototype and exquisite details. If an existing model can be superceded with a noticeably higher detailed version, I can be induced to purchase, even if I already have the less detailed model. The 1960s Rocket was easily superceded with the 2020s Rocket. So now I have both.  

That statement, for me, easily applies to the rolling stock as well. The current Hornby LMR "Coal Wagons" R60164 are essentially the rolling stock for the Rainhill trials, not coal wagons. Actual detailed engineering drawings exist for LMR Coal Wagons (Wood, 1832 & 1834), yet these were not produced. I could easily be induced to purchase more rolling stock, should the more accurately detailed models be forthforthcoming.

I am certain, however, that the demand for high fidelity is not universal. I note many Forum members who are quite happy with their existing models and would never upgrade. 

3) Schedule as it reflects into budget.

More certainty in terms of scheduled delivery would permit me to more closely align expenditures with the expected budget. This allows me to squeeze in a bit more product. An inducement to purchase more, because I can!

I note many on the Forum with large pre-orders, which can ship at random times. Essentially, a customer can go quarters without a delivery and then be shipped 20 locomotives in a week. Yikes!! That plays havoc with any budget.  

I empathize with Hornby here. They have subcontracted their entire production, and therefore, have little control over the schedule. They are virtually slaves to whatever the subcontractor communicates. Simon has attempted to explain his plight in various interviews. He is aware of the problem.

There are ways to manage subcontractors and perhaps Hornby will avail themselves of those practices. Subcontractor management directly affects their business and my ability to order more product.  

÷÷÷÷

So those are my big 3. More variety of models. More details on the models. Better control of schedule, reflected into budget.

What would induce YOU to buy more?

Bee

[96RAF]

Get stuff out on time. So many projects are stalled or running late, which puts me off.

My other gripe is rejecting likely viable projects on the basis of poor pre-orders. In my mind pre-orders stats are not a reliable indication of if a product will sell. E.g Select-a-link adapter cable, a pet favourite of mine, which would have allowed Select owners to use RM, thus enhancing sales of that product as a result.

[Topcat2018]

Unfortunately, for obvious commercial reasons, Hornby are going to produce models that have the widest appeal, which almost certainly means British Rail, LNER, LMS, Great Western and Southern.

The Liverpool and Manchester Railway, although a trail-blazer, is going to be more of a niche market, like many other companies that were subsumed into the "Big Four".

Such companies are the market for more specialist model-making firms, with small production runs and correspondingly higher prices.

[Bulleidboy]

I think the phrase "You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time”, fits railway modellers and Hornby.

Bee said "Produce a greater variety of models in my railway of interest" - if you took fifty modellers, they would all have different models that they wanted. Hornby have a wide range of models, but obviously not all are what are wanted by some - hence the moaning. What is Bee's interest may not be mine, so if he gets what he wants, I come on here and moan that there is nothing of interest for me - and so it goes on. If I see something I like I order it and wait - I have no worries about how long it takes to arrive, my order is in and it will arrive in due course. As originally a "collector" I have the usual collection - Mallard, Flying Scotsman etc., but now having a "Southern" based layout, most of my more recent purchases are naturally southern based loco's and stock.

So I don't think Hornby could induce me to buy more (I think I have enoughsmile) - if they produce something I want I buy it - if they do not, I do not spend time on here moaning that Hornby do not produce anything I want.

[Yelrow]

Trouble with this thread is that Hornby will Never read it. It is fine to express your personal interests, but as Barry said, his wishes, may only be what 2% of us want. He is totally right about Pre orders, most of us, has same view. In my whole life i have only Pre ordered twice. Once for TTS P2, and now for a TT Set. As for era of modelling, i doubt amongst my 140 locos, i have more than 4 of same region. I buy the loco that appeals to me. Zero interest in its logo / region. My old bosses wife used to buy their new cars, She had no idea of make/ model. They drove down the dealers road, and she said. The Yellow one. please. He never had same make twice. Robs point about Select cable, is massive. Huge market potential, announced, then dropped. At my time of life the only inducement is Price.

[RDS]

... In my whole life I have only Pre ordered twice. Once for TTS P2, and now for a TT Set.

 

 

You beat me by one John, (I have a TT:120 set on pre-order), Dave

[Fazy]

Well if you’re into the L&MR you could buy a few more models of the rocket and rename them. She was the 1st not the only member of the class. Second the rocket only ran in yellow at the trails. The colour was probably green and brown when running on the L&MR.

As for what models to do well that’s a tough one for a company. Has in what you want and see as a no brainier. Others won’t. Others have replied enough on this.

high detail? Well again some want it others don’t. Myself I don’t mind it either way I like higher degree of accuracy but if it’s at a price where others can’t afford then I can add more detail when it ends up on my work bench.

[ellocoloco]

BB & Fazy have it spot on. Every modeller wants something different and if its not available, do it yourself. 

I waited years for accurate British models and just after I had completed my third HO scale Class 66, TT120 comes along. And just imagine my frustration with Hornby wasting resources on L&MR cabinet queens and simultaneously neglecting my other interests - Spanish HO. Hornby International's Electrotren brand has delays similar to those in OO and only a couple of new releases that I 'need'. The sales people at Hornby are in the best position to judge what will sell and we have to let them try and satisfy the largest number of fans they can. After all, it's in their interest and if the model we want doesn't get announced, there's always next year.

I'd be waiting along time for my British HO models if I didn't do them myself.......

[Yelrow]

RDS, Hi, Dave, still not received my catalogue, or TT Membership pack, so what chance my FS set. supposed to be from Heather for xmas.

[What About The Bee]

Whoops!

I do suppose I have been terribly unclear. It was not / is not my intention to make this thread about the L&MR. I used the L&MR as a way of explaining my inducements. My apologies for being obscure. My thanks to all the suggestions about scratch building. I'm well on my way with that. Ditto the comments about other niche manufacturers, chaldrons were certainly on the railway, so thank you Accurascale. I'm also not moaning about Hornby doing other models and not what I want. Heck no! I am quite happy with what has been done so far and look forward to what will come. Quite the happy camper here!

What this thread WAS supposed to be about are your inducements. 96RAF got that straight away. He jumped into what puts him off and what would make him more comfortable. Fazy suggested detail was something he could add later. That was in the spirit I intended!

I will try to be more clear going forward. Sorry about that 🤷‍♂️

[LTSR_NSE]

I am very much a ‘magpie’ purchaser, so Hornby continuing to produce an extensive range of models is ideal for me.

My recent purchases have included items from a variety of ranges: pioneering (LMR), pre-grouping (Terrier), industrial (Peckett), & nostalgic (Triang Remembered).

There are however two areas where I believe Hornby could improve (that would induce me to purchase more from them):

• All model producers experience difficulties/problems during production, but imo some other companies give a better impression of being more ‘open’ about theirs. I find this quality/appearance appealing - so I commend Hornby for their recent TT:120 Q&A & hope it indicates an increased move towards this!

• Other producers (and indeed Hornby themselves) recognise that production timescales can be long. However whilst Hornby’s engine shed simply provides some production highlights, other companies choose instead to use their newsletters/blogs/updates to indicate where all announced items are within their separate production schedules.

These different approaches have had a direct impact on one of my purchasing decisions. I was (& am) interested in the L&MR Lion locomotive & when 2 companies both announced intent to produce I watched and read all available updates with interest. However whilst 1 company provided a wealth of information regarding their production development (including options to purchase the individual loco separately), Hornby chose instead to not provide any information until the release of a train pack was imminent (there is still no indication of whether they will produce the loco individually). For these reasons I made the decision to pre-order the item (that I desired) that I was actually actually able to, (and even though I am still waiting for it to be released) I am not at all impatient/unhappy with the length of time it is taking, simply because I am receiving regular updates regarding its progress!

[wairoalbany]

Improved quality control is my biggest issue with Hornby off the top of my head. In saying that most of my British models are Hornby and I am quite satisfied with them overall.

I am happy with the variety of models they produce. Certainly a lot more on offer than I can afford.

[atom3624]

Totally agreed.

There are many excellent models, but just-prior-to sign-off and QC are seriously letting them down.

Look at the initial 10000 Hush Hush front bogie debacle - that should never have happened.

Al.

[The son of Triangman]

QC issues need a proper UK QC department setting up in the old factory. Tri-ang used to bench test their models, mechanical and visual QC before final boxing up, this carried on into Margate days.

Today's models are fragile in nature with all that detail, but I do think more needs to be done on spare parts such as spare loco bodies and parts availability. Sooner or later even the most careful of us modellers will damage something by accident.

I sympathise with Hornby, they are trying to keep a famous brand name alive on a very challenging marketplace. One of the biggest problems Hornby has is the main range is far too large, and this in other companies affects production schedules and delivery times. The smaller the range the easier it is to met delivery targets.

RDS Mod Note: SoT, I have deleted your 3 duplicate copies of this post. It is easy to do but sometimes if the website is busy, it takes quite a few seconds to accept your post, so best to wait a short while if you think it has not registered to see if it catches up. Usually only one press of the send button is required.

[GWR LNER fan 4472]

I could list a bunch of products I'd like to see produced, but the fact of the matter is putting all your money into a certain company/region/era isn't sensible for a big company like Hornby. A greater variety amongst all areas of interest would be good though.

In terms of marketing and general company appeal, I have said for years that Hornby should produce new models for their Railroad range. That doesn't mean reusing 30-year-old moulds, I'm on about new-tooled locos with less detail and fewer features than a premium model. Not all modellers want super flimsy, shiny, all-metal models with lights and sounds etc, although there is certainly a market for that.

Take the Hornby Hall class from 2015ish. That was in the Railroad range, and yet it was a new-tooled loco, as far as I'm aware. The detail is perfectly adequate and it's a superb runner. I bought mine new for £80. It's a useful mould for Hornby to have because the Halls are a staple for many Western layouts, and the tooling has seen wider appeal in the Hogwarts Castle guise.

Whilst producing new tools and moulds will understandably push the price up to start with, the lack of intricate details and flashy features should mean the price would be affordable to new starters and younger modellers, and indeed more experienced modellers who can then add the extra details themselves.

Which models exactly should be part of this range are up to debate, but I'd argue a new 57xx Pannier is a no-brainer.

I terms of other things they are/could be doing, TT is a great idea and I'm really hopeful that it will succeed, however I model OO, so I won't be getting any myself.

My buying habits of late have tended towards small GWR/Western Region locos and it so happens that they've all been from other manufacturers.

[Buz]

Hi all

I have said this often enough.

I don't care how fantastic the model locomotive is.

Hornby need to go back to the future and have a comprehensive spare part avalability

and repair service once again.

I am sick of having very some nice modern models fail and find I can't repair them or get the limited available spare parts if any.

Yet tricky though it is getting to find parts now, when needed.

My 1960's locomotives keep on keeping on.

It kind of spoils the train when a 1960's locomotive is pulling a rake of the latest up to the minute matching coaches, when the modern loco is a piece of failed junk.

As model trains are not essential items and are very expensive (they always have been before any one pipes up on that) it makes sense to me that they should be repairable, and for those so inclined it is a lot greener to repair, than send to the rubbish tip and buy a new. one

regards John

[Tony57]

I would buy more new Hornby if they made their products in the era I am currently interested in which is 1980 and 90's Electric Locos with working pantographs and live catenary wire system. It is disappointing that the models made in the 80's and 90"s have working pantographs yet todays just have dummy posable ones.

I have to say I am happy the the detail of the models of that period with their home repairable Ringfield motors. Just have to sort out which catenary system I will use, it could end up is a pick and mix system

I have to agree with John (Buz), Hornby has to go back to having a standard home repairable motor or or two which fits in a wide range of Locos not the current a different non repairable motor in every locomotive.

On the spares front why don't Hornby use the Margate site as a manufacturing site for spare parts either use the original tooling or 3D print the parts required.