96RAF Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Yes, it is the power connectors that differ but I don’t think they use push-in clips anymore. It looked in one posting as if the power strips were micro-welded or otherwise attached to the track. I will try to remove the capacitor from my Easterner power rail and use it as a programming track when I get a HM7000 decoder. Looking at the product pages there are analogue and digital versions of both the power track and slide in power clip. Both look as if they ‘open’ similar to the OO items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dBerriff Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 You only need a programming track if you want to program the new decoders direct from a DCC controller. I have just acquired a used Hornby Elite. There is a programming track outlet - such a waste not to use it. open_mouthIt would be typical of me to wire it all up and then just use the app. thinking_face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 I have a programming length of track, ballasted and buffered on my control board. I am sure many, like me, who may experiment with HM7000 - programming loco's from their phone or downloading sounds - will not be ripping up anything that has been in place for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 You only need a programming track if you want to program the new decoders direct from a DCC controller.I have just acquired a used Hornby Elite. There is a programming track outlet - such a waste not to use it. open_mouthIt would be typical of me to wire it all up and then just use the app. thinking_face Agreed - I have both a fixed programming track and a rolling road which I can switch from prog to run, but once you have used the app to instantly write CV changes and read-back all CVs in seconds on the main you may find the old way might get dusty. How long does RM take to read-back all CVs.But you will still need the service track for changing legacy decoders as even with the dongle the app cannot do that to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dBerriff Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Thank you. I am looking forward to trying the HM7000 decoders. The more I learn the better they look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 As I said elsewhere - HST v steam era for legacy decoders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Good job that Hornby waited for Bluetooth to be developed into a reliable system… its earlier versions would have created APT results! grimacing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 There is more to this Bluetooth thing than folk may think. One of the hurdles that had to be overcome in the app was all the nodes talking at once, which caused problems with a larger mesh especially if an emergency stop was requested. Imagine trying to control a big class of noisy kids. Now they have been told to listen up and to react in turn. As this polling latency is only in the order of microseconds it is not noticeable in user terms.Another thing to consider is the workload involved to produce all the supporting sound profiles which have to be in both OO and where applicable TT:120 versions. It was not as simple as run the TTS files through a converter. It would be foolish to launch the app if the only sound profiles available were FS and A4. Not all profiles will be available at launch so you may have to wait a while for your Class XYZ to appear, but the system allows you to load any profile anytime and try out the advanced features of the decoder or try an alternative whilst waiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 On the same Q&A they said either month end or early Feb for the app.There was supposed to be UAT by a small select group invited by Marketing before app launch but that required getting them kitted out with a decoder and a link to the app which has yet to happen. Thanks, Rob, looking forward to having a look at it. Of course I'll need a decoder to actually try it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 If we look at the OO sets the DCC variety comes with a power track with no capacitor. You don’t need both. It is easy to disconnect the capacitor in the OO hardware but probably a bit more difficult with the smaller TT version. It is all to do with suppressing interference from motor commutators so Hornby does what it has to do to meet the regulations. I am sure they would be quite happy to drop the capacitors if they could. I'm sure they would be happy to as they charge considerably more for the absence of a cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpjallan Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Q&A session, a lot of this is TT:120 but it also has HM7000 news. I have only just watched this because I thought it only involved TT stuff. I didn't watch it over again but where they are discussing HM7000 I could swear Simon said that the dongle is two way & you could control Bluetooth decoders from the Elite. Did anyone else notice that. I'll have to look at it again when I get a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 @rpjallan - Since it will be possible to control the new HM7000 decoders from an elite (no dongle necessary) and also to control non-Bluetooth decoders with the app (using the dongle with elite)…Why highlight how easy it is to mangle words during a live unscripted broadcast? (particularly considering the confusion such highlighting is likely to cause) thinking_face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 Or to just clarify - Bluetooth HM7000 decoders don’t need a dongle to be programmed and run by an Elite, they work both ways. Dongle allows legacy decoders to be run by the App, nothing more, nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpjallan Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Or to just clarify - Bluetooth HM7000 decoders don’t need a dongle to be programmed and run by an Elite, they work both ways.Dongle allows legacy decoders to be run by the App, nothing more, nothing less. That's what I thought but he definitely said it & the other guy there didn't correct him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechImp Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Hello all, interesting times. Your questions and answers have been very helpful in clearing up any I may have had; particularly Raf96 and Fishmanoz, thank you. It appears a well thought out system allowing intergration with all prior systems. I use Railmaster and from your information the new HM7000 decoders only need CV12 to be adjusted to run on DCC. That makes modifying Railmaster to access bluetooth a little redundant I suppose.Does this mean further development of Railmaster is not likely?All the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 22, 2023 Share Posted January 22, 2023 Or to just clarify - Bluetooth HM7000 decoders don’t need a dongle to be programmed and run by an Elite, they work both ways.Dongle allows legacy decoders to be run by the App, nothing more, nothing less.That's what I thought but he definitely said it & the other guy there didn't correct him... Out of the mouths of Marketing . . .Trust me Fishy and I are correct.@techimpyou can still run HM7000 locos in RM in DCC mode through your existing controller. No extra kit required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goathland Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 you can still run HM7000 locos in RM in DCC mode through your existing controller. No extra kit required. I've seen that you can switch the decoder between bluetooth DCC, regular track based DCC (I have seen this described as legacy DCC!), and DC. But having switched it to track based DCC how do you get it back to bluetooth mode? Is the bluetooth connection still there and if so for what operations, maybe this even goes as far as CV programming and speed control with both? Or do you have to put it on a programming track and use your regular DCC controller to program it back to bluetooth?The same question also applies once you have switched a decoder to DC control only in this case as you must apply some power to program the decoder does that mean that the wheels turn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 23, 2023 Share Posted January 23, 2023 In order to answer your questions fully you will have to wait for the decoder user manual to appear.The app takes control without having to put the loco on a programming track, that would be a silly thing to have to do every time you wanted to switch control.DC running is not recommended except for running in - see the manual when it is published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goathland Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcr22 Posted January 24, 2023 Share Posted January 24, 2023 I think changing CV12 will flip flop between track DCC & Bluetooth DCC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 You can do it in the app by a button press in loco settings … Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TechImp Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 The term "legacy" concerns me, having like many others invested thousands of dollars in DCC. Is this description used by Hornby or just an unfortunate useage on this forum?I understand that all current DCC is still viable with the new system but some indication that RM is not dead and buried would be reassuring - Hornby could use a little better PR for their long-standing customers in these situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 Hornby to my knowledge has never used the term ‘legacy’ in any of its promotion material.It is a word I use to describe existing DCC technology.The word has been in my vocabulary since schooldays and rightly or wrongly was defined by my old English teacher as ‘that which is left by one for the use of others’. I have not looked up the modern definition.Edit - apologies Hornby uses the word legacy in its description of the HM7040 dongle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 Does this definition give some confidence and reassurance?denoting or relating to software or hardware that has been superseded but is difficult to replace because of its wide use.[ Source : Oxford Dictionary]R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted January 28, 2023 Share Posted January 28, 2023 @TEI would think it more likely that RM will update their system in order to take advantage of HM7000, not simply whither on the vine. It is obviously in their own interest to do so.The question is, I suppose, how long it might take them to do so. Then there is the e-Link hardware upgrade to consider thinking_face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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