Locos stuck changing circuits

[Ralphy51]

I have three circuits connected by two pairs of standard left hand points ( connected with isolating fishplates) Moving from the third to second radius circuit my locos can travel at relatively slow speeds but the same locos can’t traverse from the 2nd to 1st radius circuit at the same speed because they get stuck. If I use higher speeds they can cross .

It doesn’t seem to be the points because if I swap them with the other pair the problem stays in the same place. The tracks are level in both places and I can see no logical cause.

Anybody shed any light on this please ?

[What About The Bee]

1) since the locomotives can traverse either set of points when going from 3rd to 2nd radius ciruit, we can eliminate point geometry issues. The locomotives and point geometries must be within spec.

2) if the locomotives can traverse from 2nd radius to 1st radius circuit at high speed, then we can eliminate polarity issues. The locomotive does not suddenly try to reverse, from the description, it carries on.

Possible issues

A) do you have a small electric dead zone, but only at the 2nd to 1st radius circuit? A locomotive at speed may get beyond that dead zone, where a slow locomotive may not. Test with a multimeter for good voltage throughout the interchange.

B) the location of the point may present binding. That is, as the locomotive is in the point, it leads directly into a 1st radius curve. The spec on most modern locomotives is R2, not R1. Is it possible that the locomotive is binding? Push the locomotive through by hand and feel for retarding force.

Feel free to reject these causes, because you have already checked it.

Bee

[Ralphy51]

Bee,

Thanks for your interest .

i don’t own a multimeter but may be able to borrrow one to check and thanks for the suggestion.

As for B) I don’t think it can be this as the point doesn’t connect to a curve but to the straight of another point.

If there IS a dead spot, what would be a solution please? Does moving the point at which the Rad 1 circuit power is connected have any bearing ?

[LTSR_NSE]

@ralphy could you please post a photo or sketch indicating how your tracks are laid? (concentrating especially on the points and how they are being fed electrically)

Since you have stated that your pairs of points connect together with isolated fishplates a ‘dead zone’ sounds a distinct possibility.

Moving the electrical feed for one or more of the points might solve the issue - but to determine that we would need to see your existing setup.

[What About The Bee]

Hi Ralphy 👋.

A simple multimeter will be very useful to any enthusiast. While you can spend a lot, you don't need to. The cheap and cheerful one is all you need.

If we toss out mechanical binding issues, then this sounds more like an electrical issue. I agree with LT&SR_NSE, a diagram of some sort would be useful. It doesn't have to be an elegant diagram, just a sketch will get us going.

I should also like to know what locomotive you are using, as the pickups and their spacing may prove significant.

Bee

And get a multimeter!

[96RAF]

Have a read of the Getting Started ... guide in the sticky post at the top of the General Discussion section index page. It tells about where to put power connections and why points can affect the power path.

[ntpntpntp]

Hi Ralphy 👋.

A simple multimeter will be very useful to any enthusiast. While you can spend a lot, you don't need to. The cheap and cheerful one is all you need.

....

And get a multimeter!

 

 

Agreed. An essential bit of kit for a railway modeller. The £10 - £15 ones are fine for what you usually need to check (volt, amps, resistance, continuity). Try and choose one with an audible "beep" for the continuity test function, much more useful than having to look back at the meter display when you've just managed to get the test probes positioned exactly where you want them!

[TFOCH]

What happens when you push the loco forwards? How long does it take before it starts to move again?

My guess is the power connection on the inner loop is towards the open end of the points, and you've a bad connection somewhere. When the points are "straight" you're still getting a circuit, but switching the points causes the issue.

[Tony57]

I would replace the insulating fishplates with metal ones and try again with them in place, As Hornby points are self insulating there is no need to use insulating fishplates between the points, there is the possibility of a dead spot between the v of the point and isolating fishplate which the loco crosses at speed but hits when going slow

 

[Ralphy51]

Just catching up with the recent posts and will review and respond but in the meantime here are a couple of photos.

[Ralphy51]

The power supply for rad 3 and rad 2 is left of the points whereas the supply for rad 1 is to the right in my photos

[Ralphy51]

Hi Tony,

I didn’t realise this was possible if I have separate controls for each circuit .

[Brew Man]

No, I don't think it's possible either. You'd have two supplies clashing with each other.

[Ralphy51]

Just watched a really useful video in the basic uses of a multimeter for solving issues and I can definitely see the benefits. Thanks for the advice - just about to order one !

[Brew Man]

An essential piece of kit I'd say.

[ModelerXYZ]

Thanks for the picture. The problem may lie on the point in front of the loco-if its set incorrectly or not connecting properly then it may cause the loco to stop.

XYZ

[TFOCH]

The power supply for rad 3 and rad 2 is left of the points whereas the supply for rad 1 is to the right in my photos

 

 

So is that to the right of the other points we can see?

 

 

Try taking a length of wire and connecting the rails from around where the power supply is to the left of the points. Do one at a time, just touching the wire to the rails.

 

 

[TFOCH]

The power supply for rad 3 and rad 2 is left of the points whereas the supply for rad 1 is to the right in my photos

 

 

So is that to the right of the other points we can see?

 

 

Try taking a length of wire and connecting the rails from around where the power supply is to the left of the points. Do one at a time, just touching the wire to the rails.

 

 

[Ralphy51]

Thanks . I’ll check that out tomorrow but bearing in mind I’ve tried other points in that same location I’m not hopeful but let’s see.

[ModelerXYZ]

the one on the edge of the picture-not the one its on.

XYZ

[Fishmanoz]

Haven’t read every word in this thread but, in case not already covered, the Getting Started …. sticky thread at the top of the forum has good advice on how to wire to avoid dead spots around points.

Edit: oops, already covered by Rob on page 1. The answer will be in there.

[Tony57]

What type of insulated fish plate are you using?

In the second photo there does not appear to be a gap between the 3rd and 2nd tracks at the crossing point so there will be no break in the power supply as the train crosses over, there does appear to be a gap between the 2nd and 1st track under the loco so there will be a break in the power supply, you may have a suspect point that was manufactured with a fault in it then thrown would show a fault of no power, which may not show when switched around and are in contact with each other.

[Ralphy51]

What type of insulated fish plate are you using?

In the second photo there does not appear to be a gap between the 3rd and 2nd tracks at the crossing point so there will be no break in the power supply as the train crosses over, there does appear to be a gap between the 2nd and 1st track under the loco so there will be a break in the power supply, you may have a suspect point that was manufactured with a fault in it then thrown would show a fault of no power, which may not show when switched around and are in contact with each other.

I agree the gap seems bigger where the loco is stranded and I’ll recheck to see if everything is pushed together as snugly as possible. However isn’t the purpose of the isolated fishplates that there IS a tiny gap ?

 

 

 

 

[Ralphy51]

Haven’t read every word in this thread but, in case not already covered, the Getting Started …. sticky thread at the top of the forum has good advice on how to wire to avoid dead spots around points.

Edit: oops, already covered by Rob on page 1. The answer will be in there.

Thanks , I had read this before but couldn’t see that my problem was specifically covered unless I’ve missed something .

 

 

 

 

[P-Henny]

@Ralphy51,

In your last two replies I am struggling to distinguish your new text from the quote. If you must use the 'Quoted Reply' menu option, which in my opinion is unnecessary, can I politely request that you place your text cursor in the blank space below the quoted text before you start typing. This will prevent your new text from having the vertical grey 'quote line' showing on the left hand side.

If you want to indicate whose post you are replying to, I would just start your reply with their @nickname as I did to this reply with yours. This, to me, seems more efficient as the 'Quoted Reply' feature on THIS forum (unlike others), doesn't indicate whose post you are quoting.