Prices

[Alan-363914]

I love hornby but £66 for a the new teak coaches is insane what are your thoughts ?

[5Dublo2]

The previous releases of the teaks (not the railroad versions) have been drawing high prices on the second hand market for a while, making it extremely hard to source them for that price, so Hornby releasing a new batch is something a lot of modellers have been waiting for.

£66 is a lot but if you look at some other vendors that have announced releases of detailed coaches recently, that price is in the same ball park (and in some cases cheap)

[Topcat2018]

@AL

I almost invariably buy second-hand unless I really, really want something I can't buy second-hand.

Older locos and rolling stock may not be as detailed or have all the bells and whistles of new one, but they are robust and reliable and don't have stuck-on details that fall off at the slightest touch. When you are on a limited budget, as I am, the savings made allow you to spend more on track and your layout.

I did recently buy one new, fairly modern LNER teak dining car, but it was barely out of the box when steps and other bits of detail glued onto the bogies fell off.

[threelink]

With you all the way, Topcat. I take things to extremes and only buy broken bits of trains to cobble into complete models. My average spend is £12.00 on a loco, £4.50 on a carriage and £3.00 on a wagon, to include reasonable wheelsets, scale link couplings and details such as vac pipes, lamps and the like. It can be done.

[ColinB]

I think that they are trying to catch up with Bachmann. I also notice that it is the Bachmann coaches that are always in sales, so perhaps they have difficulty shifting them at that price. I bought my non Railroad Teaks second hand, I found if you wait long enough you can get them for reasonable prices.

[DarkRedCape]

I bought the new LNER teak coaches because I don't have any, and they're something I've wanted since I got into the hobby and I've found that teak coaches can be hard to come by, but having received mine today, I do feel a bit of buyers remorse.

The LMS Coronation Scot coaches that came out recently are cheaper than the LNER coaches, just as high quality, and they had lighting. For £66 a coach, I'm expecting lighting.

Where does this stop? How long before it's £100 for a single coach? The new upcoming R602XX Bogie wagons are almost £40 each.

[Topcat2018]

@TH

Well done for getting such good bargains. I tend to buy things things that are cosmetically in reasonable condition but non-runners as I'm OK with electrical/mechanical repairs. As a retired electronic engineer I'm used to handling tiny surface mount components so fixing the electrics/mechanics of a loco is not a problem. However my artistic skills such as painting leave a lot to be desired.

[ColinB]

That is how come I have 3 DCC controllers bought two and fixed them. I too am a retired Electronics Engineer but more into software. I must admit surface mount I have difficulty with I was really pleased when I fixed a LokSound v3.0 sound decoder by replacing the diodes but that was a one off, although a lot of my locos are ones i bought broken and fixed. As to the coaches their prices will eventually rise but I think that certain manufacturers are pushing the price to a point where there is no market. It is a bit like locos, some are worth the price hike others are not. Sure Hornby has to make a profit or they are no more but if the market dies through unrealistic prices then the effect is the same.

[Bulleidboy]

I recently bought a Bachmann Bulleid SR Brake Composite BR Green - it cost £64.00 - so I don't see the Hornby prices are much different. It does pay to look around.

Just out of interest I checked the records of my collection, and I have four LNER Teaks bought in 2006 for £36.50 each - that's seventeen years ago, so if they have doubled in price in that time, it does not seem unreasonable?

[ColinB]

As I said in an earlier post Bachmann carriages are expensive. I am pretty sure my teaks weren't that expensive although I did scan for the cheapest prices.

[Tony57]

The trouble with world trade is the increasing costs the cost of raw materials and electronic components, the cost of made in China has gone up, the cost of hire cost of the shipping containers have gone up, the cost of shipping it half way around the world has gone up, the exchange rate at the time the pound was down, whist we all may hate the price all the above has to be paid for by us.

[andys steam dayz]

Hi

Don't forget Rapido Dynamometer car sold brand new for £130 when first released it was highly detailed and had lights.At the end of the day a coach is worth what people are willing to pay for them but on the whole now prices are getting ridiculous from Hornby and Bachmann

[ModelerXYZ]

I know prices are getting rediculus. I can't afford them, it takes me ages to save up for anything I need, so my layout hasn't had anything new for ages. The last thing I got for it was a set of points to replace a set that were life expired.

XYZ

[ColinB]

The Rapido Dynamometer is completely different so that is definitely an unfair comparison. It was a special order which would increase the price. They originally were only sold by Rails and Rapido. I can't remember what I paid for mine, definitely not £150 but I bought it as it was unique. The detail level surpasses a Hornby coach and not that it adds much cost it also has lights, the coach in question doesn't. The expense Bachmann ones also have lights. I put that in the same category as buying an HD Sir Nigel Gresley when you could have bought the plastic bodied version for £100 cheaper. Interestingly my local model shop had them on sale which tends to prove that Rapido were having issues shifting the second batch as originally it was limited to Rails and Rapido. If you go to the world of plumbing a designer radiator is tons more expensive than a bog standard one. They don't shift the numbers so the design costs are shared by less numbers and the high cost of the designer one appeals to people who want something different.

To be honest I don't pay that sort of money for a coach, I have some Bachmann DCC fitted ones I bought in a sale but there again I added in the cost of me fitting lights and a DCC controller and figured that they were a bargain at 20% off. If someone wants to, then that is entirely their choice.

[LTSR_NSE]

Anyone can obviously suggest that companies should charge *fair* prices, and wish things were cheaper (however it is as purposeful as wishing tides or gravity ceased). Hornby set prices that they believe will sell and be profitable. Provided enough people buy, they were correct (and anyone unable/unwilling to purchase simply wasn’t their target market) - obviously if they are incorrect and not enough buy, then the price gets discounted.

There are plenty of models produced by Hornby & other manufacturers that I would love to possess, but I either cannot afford them or I feel they are overpriced. The second-hand market sometimes helps with these, but sometimes not.

Yet when a model appears that I feel is good value, (or I simply cannot ignore) I find a way of justifying/affording it. This tells me that anything which I can’t/don’t purchase, simply wasn’t meant to be - what’s the use of complaining?

* such a subjective word as to be virtually meaningless

[bill7437]

A hobby which is being priced into non-existence I am afraid.

[Moccasin]

A hobby which is being priced into non-existence I am afraid.

 

 

Given the way that TT120 train sets and the OO P2s have been seemingly flying out of the warehouse over the past couple of weeks, I think the hobby is doing OK. Many TT120 customers are new or returning to the hobby.

Hornby's annual report also talks of them developing a "capsule range" which is planned to be cheaper and addresses pricing concerns from national retailers (presumably the likes of Argos, John Lewis et al).

[threelink]

What an interesting range of views. At the end of the day I suppose we all have to go with what suits us best. To those who can afford today's prices I say more power to your elbow - buy and enjoy. To those who, like me, can neither afford nor justify huge expense on a hobby I say decide what you want and, if not affordable, look for other ways to achieve it. I wanted a lot of scale length trains with fine wheelsets, scale link couplings and as much detail as possible when seen from normal viewing distance. The cost was enormous - more than I would spend on a car - so I bought up broken and inoperative locos, rolling stock and parts thereof to repair refurbish and improve. It is a continuing process. The roster now tops 100 locos, 50 carriages and 200 wagons at average expense each of £12.00, £4.50 and £3.00 respectively. They are just what I want, run superbly and at normal viewing distance do not look much different from modern r-t-r. There is always a way round a problem that does not involve throwing a lot of money at it.

[ColinB]

I don't think the hobby is being priced into non-existence although I do think some companies are over optimistic as to what they can charge but then that is the reason that they have excess stock. There are other companies that are more realistic with their prices. My usual task is to compare models between manufacturers and work out if there is a reason for the excessive price difference. My favorite is a Hornby recently released class 87 and the Accurascale class 92. Just read the specs for these two models especially the lighting and pantographs and explain to me why the Hornby one is £40 dearer. The Hornby class 87 is a repainted old model with fixes to its PCB to be able to fix a HM7000 decoder. The Accuscale model is totally new designed from scratch, so should be substantially more expensive. You can do the comparison with both Hornby and Bachmann models, Sam pulls these two manufacturers up regularly when he compares them with Dapol and Accurascale. Sam recently criticized Bachmann over their class 90 price, but again compare it with the Hornby class 87 and it is value for money although still expensive. The only ones you cannot compare is the large Hornby steam locos other than say the 9F because there are not the equivalent locos make by the other cheaper manufacturers. Even with the 9F I have the latest Hornby and the latest Bachmann. Yes the Hornby is a lot better than the Bachmann in look and feel but then you realise the Bachmann I bought with Zimo/Loksound fitted was only £20 dear than the current Hornby 9F retail price without.

I also agree with LT&SR_NSE, I adopt a similar strategy.

[RB51]

I think the scope of "Rule#1 applies" just got wider. R-

[DarkRedCape]

I’ve gotten most of my coaches from Hattons when they’ve been heavily discounted. The reason I bought the LNER teak coaches brand new is they seem to be very popular and getting a good set second hand or on sale seems to be quite rare.

[ColinB]

Yesterday I went through my old EBay sales and two years ago I was paying about £40 to £45 for second hand ones or new "old stock" ones.

[What About The Bee]

Discussion about price invariably reveals more about the commentator than it does about the "fairness" of the price. I happen to agree with LT&SR_NSE, "fair" is arbitrary.

It will always be thus. What is expensive for me, DRC seems to have the budget for. Attaboy DRC! You have marvelous stock, I am quite envious! 3Link is forthright in stating the prices are beyond his budget, but he still has loads of fun. Attaboy 3Link! Pride in making your own. I admire your skill.

I have pre-ordered R40357 for Queen Adelaide's Saloon, the other carriages are bonus but not required. £119. I have ordered R30090 for the Booth Curtain Carriage, the other kit is just a bonus. £242. Essentially £361 for two carriages. Or £181/carriage. Yes, I can afford it. Not complaining, at all.

Custom involute gears are ~£100 each. I have 10 on OO Planet. Did anyone hear me complain to the gear manufacturer that his prices weren't fair?

£66 / teak?

If you like the Teak carriages and they are in budget, buy them. The price will be long forgotten after you watch them on track, for years from now. If they last for 6 years, and why wouldn't they, that's £11 per year of enjoyment. Fairly inexpensive when viewed that way, eh?

~~~~

An amusing anecdote. Sam, of youTube fame, gives a score for an item's price. I can evaluate the price relative to my budget without his input and have mentioned that to him without avail. He has also stated repeatedly, that a locomotive seems too light in weight to justify the price. That is a very, very odd correlation. Under a recent video, I recommended that he state a price per pound (price per kilogram) number on each loco in a review, tongue in cheek. He replied that it seemed like a good idea. I cannot wait for this feature to begin!!

Bee

[ColinB]

Sam adds the price into his rating to indicate if it is value for money. It helps the buyer decide whether they really want it. Hornby and Bachmann frequently release an old loco design at their new prices, his analysis helps you decide whether it is worth purchasing the brand new one or opting for a second hand one. Seeing as most purchases these days are through mail order, to me it is a very useful rating, but then we are not all the same.

[atom3624]

I can see where both of you are coming from.

1. Your money, you've made the decision to purchase, why should anyone else influence that?
2. Relative to 'fair trade', the general market, other manufacturers' activities and products, does the price seem to be acceptable and fair?

Totally agree that it really doesn't make sense that an already-tooled model aspires to new-tooled model pricing strategies. There is often the inclusion of 'contemporary updates' perhaps not that obvious, which has been incurred at extra cost.

Generally, I find Sam's presentations quite entertaining, often presenting some issues I hadn't observed.

That horrendous early batch W1 bogie problem for a start ...

Al.