Another price increase?

[Fazy]

bring home the manufacturing would more then double the new high price of the models. Workers would want £15 a hour it’s fiddly work and simi skilled (if you can get them).

Hornby would need bring in more floor space and change their insurances, paid leave etc would need to be included.

Tools who owns them? Do Hornby maybe or maybe just the rights of them. If they do own them they will need the machines, and how many I bit that all the tooling doesn’t fit one machine so you might need 5 maybe ten different machines some might only be needed for a few models meaning the machines sitting idle. So making no money but still needs paying for. Which will be spread over all models. And that’s only if Hornby own the tooling. New tooling would be more expensive as the tool makers would be in the uk and won’t work for the same rates as the Chinese.

Hornby's models would be on par with the Ho models in cost fancy a pacifist for £800 to £1000~

And we still need motors, electronics etc sending over from you know where.

It would be nice with GB in a box but the cost would make peoples eyes water.

[Christopher1707822212]

The problem is not VAT, it is the huge increases in transport costs (which affects all imports) and, as SoT pointed out, materials and component prices have escalated over the last year due to worldwide shortages.

 

 

Yes, freight costs are increasing. Other market sectors are having increases in delivery costs too. VAT is part of the economy though, so it is not to be discounted. We are living in a period of inflation.

The pound sterling is starting to strengthen against some currencies, so comparatively that might help imports.

Or train model designers could make a less complicated model.

Personally I haven't found the prices to be exorbitant. At less than £20 for an exquisitely modelled wagon ~ to complain would seem churlish.

Wouldn't you agree?

[threelink]

I suppose that much depends on one's financial position. In isolation £20.00 for a single wagon might not sound a lot but for a train of loco (£300.00) and, say, 20 wagons (£400.00) one is looking at a total of £700.00 for one train. Four trains will cost £2,800.00. Each to his own, of course but speaking personally, even if I could afford it, that is not a sum I could justify spending on a hobby. Perhaps I'm just a mean old man.

[CORKY.]

At £20 I have bought box sets of 3 exquisitely modelled Railroad open trucks, tankers and vans, and from Ebay £20 for the cheeky 0 4 0 tank engines that collector club members never wanted. I would agree, the alternatives are too expensive/fragile for me, and with 4 loops and matching dc controllers, plenty to amuse me

[ColinB]

I don't think the wagons are so much of an issue, it is when you get to something like a class 43 at £364 and Dapol ones are still very competitively priced. As I have said in previous posts I compare them with Bachmann's current pricing, generally the detail is the same, Bachmann's mechanics weren't quite as good but currently these models are cheaper. As to bringing production back here, they don't have the capital to do it. There are in vicious loop, reduced sales so the price per unit goes up so they make less and the price goes up. Sales reduce even further and so on. So they have to design models that nobody else has made before, as then they can charge a high price and be guaranteed to sell all of them. Trouble is you still have the rest of the range many of which haven't changed to close to 20 years, so if you sell one you make tons of profit, but most people already have one.

[96RAF]

That’s where badge engineering comes into its own Colin. Same old loco or wagon, just slap a different livery and/or name on it and job’s a good’n for little outlay.

The set up costs for new stock bring into play how many do we need to sell to break even. If the numbers don’t add up the project is either binned or if initiated as a ‘must do this one’ by someone in authority then it goes ahead regardless but at a much higher cost.

[CORKY.]

bring home the manufacturing would more then double the new high price of the models.

 

 

Airfix was brought home successfully, with better quality, and no big hike in prices, perhaps the guys at Hornby trains could get off their chairs, walk over to the Airfix guys and learn how they did it with such success. Or maybe the push came from the company that developed improved processes, and now manufactures the Airfix kits rather than a slumbering Aifix/Hornby themselves.

[ColinB]

I know 96RAF my old firm used to do it all the time, sometimes implemented to use the bin full of high spec items that they couldn't get rid of. Yes, we used to get the "just" jobs, worst place to sit was outside the bosses office.

With Hornby obviously their budget only allows them to retool certain locos so they pull out the old one with just a different number and name. I wanted a West Country Winston Churchill, even before the price rises they were super expensive (I suspect something to do with the partnership with the Railway Museum). I realised that it was virtually the same model as the same one twenty years ago, so I bought one of those second hand. Ok the new one was DCC ready the old one was not and the DCC socket was in the tender, but that was easy to fix. I think the old one was about £120 cheaper.

Hornby don't even sell their old rehashed ones cheaper and given their new marketing policy Retailers aren't even allowed to discount them more than a certain amount. Anyway the market will have the final say, if it is as someone said that Model Shops are having preorders cancelled then that is the proof. The new retooled Bachmann DMU I was thinking of buying looks nowhere near as expensive as before.

[VESPA]

I wonder how many look at Dapol's offerings? Most of their rerun Wrenn/Dublo stock was around £8 for a wagon. Now they have increased to £10-£12. Still reasonable but the point is they are made in Wales, not far from me. There must now also be raw material cost increases that are reflecting a 25% - 33% increase to them. I have several Railroad WR coaches which look fine to me and are available around £25. I think that if you are a nit picker and require every rivet correct then prices will be high. If you are happy to have a reasonable representation for a lesser price then the cheaper models will suffice. The next time I go to an exhibition I will have to check all roling stock for accuracy with a magnifying glass or maybe just stand back and appreciate the great effort put in to a layout and see trains running that look fine at 5' or so. Yes, I do like the new detailed stock but my Britannia collection still has what would now be Railroad models in it and there they will stay for my pleasure. Some are slightly upgraded with new front bogies and crew. Changing all the valve gear and cylinders would prove far too expensive on the older models.

[ColinB]

Thanks Vespa, I didn't realise that their wagons were made in Wales. Yes it is so easy to get dragged into the high detail stuff. I recently bought the Hornby High Spec teak coaches. I bought them second hand as you can't get them new any more but they were still expensive. When I look at them verses the Railroad ones, the paint job is much better and I like the little stickers on the windows but when on the layout they probably don't look much different to the Railroad ones. I wanted a set of GW Clerestory coaches,Hornby had released a new batch. I watched Sams trains who was doing a review, he basically said it was the old ones (1990s vintage) with a slightly better paint job and better wheels. So I bought a pair of old decent ones second hand and changed the wheels. He was absolutely right.

[ColinB]

I know that they are brand new. A renumbered A4 lets say, is using the same chassis and body that it has for the last 12 years, the Hush Hush is brand new with associated new tooling costs. They are both virtually the same price unless it is the Railroad version.

[96RAF]

Agreed Vespa.

My accuracy meter fogs out at arm's length.

[Brew Man]

I have amassed quite a lot of Dapol wagons now and find the level of detail fine. My only small criticism would be that they are a bit on the light side and are prone to occasional derailment. Easily fixed with some judicious weighting.

[threelink]

Well spoke, Vespa. The voice of common sense.

[Commander Shepard]

Someone can ask for £15 it doesn’t mean they’ll get it. There would be plenty of people happy to accept the living wage £9-£10, but that’s Irrelevant as going by what you said, no business should exist in Great Britain or no new business can open in Great Britain as it’s cheaper to do it in China.

———————————————

bring home the manufacturing would more then double the new high price of the models. Workers would want £15 a hour it’s fiddly work and simi skilled (if you can get them).

Hornby would need bring in more floor space and change their insurances, paid leave etc would need to be included.

Tools who owns them? Do Hornby maybe or maybe just the rights of them. If they do own them they will need the machines, and how many I bit that all the tooling doesn’t fit one machine so you might need 5 maybe ten different machines some might only be needed for a few models meaning the machines sitting idle. So making no money but still needs paying for. Which will be spread over all models. And that’s only if Hornby own the tooling. New tooling would be more expensive as the tool makers would be in the uk and won’t work for the same rates as the Chinese.

Hornby's models would be on par with the Ho models in cost fancy a pacifist for £800 to £1000~

And we still need motors, electronics etc sending over from you know where.

It would be nice with GB in a box but the cost would make peoples eyes water.

 

 

[Fazy]

That must be why are those farmers can’t get people to pick stuff for £15 a hour.

As for starting a new company well that’s not the same as bringing one back from abroad is it. They are two different things.

[81F]

I don't think the exchange rate is helping much some recent payments I received (converted from $) from abroad yielded 99p each when they were originally expected to yield £1.

Just out of intrest what do people think is a reasonable percentage royalty for an item?

[ColinB]

Airfix is mainly an automatic job, a machine probably makes it all. So either the machine is in China or the UK, I doubt it takes much labour, a machine can even put it into the box. Model Railways take a bit more effort, but it is all about sub assemblies and modern production techniques. I build a lot of Hornby locos from parts and if you have the right assemblies set up and they are new rather, than the secondhand ones I use it doesn't take long (less than 5 minutes) and I am not the sort that is very good at repetitive tasks. So given the number of locos Hornby produce it would cost more in labour but possibly not as much as people think. As I keep saying Hornby doesn't have the capital to consider changing anything, so they will continue on their present trend, so the argument is academic.

[Fazy]

Sorry miss read Yes sub assembly will speed things up but someone still as to do the assembly from scratch.

I do similar to you buy some none runners and build a good one out of bits. And yes if the body is in good nic and the chassis is good 5mins easy.

But I also RTR bash to make what I want. The Hornby rebuilt Scot/pat is well over 200 closer to 300 parts counting tender the body as about 70~ bits

I was just wondering how long it would take to assemble all those bits

[Tony57]

As a follow up to Vespa's input, I have been buying the Wessex Wagons produced for the Watercress Line's Wagon Restoration Group Fund Raising offers and other organisations like General Steam Navigation, they use Dapol blank wagons and are still cheaper for the limited edition's and made in Britain than what Hornby are currently offering.

[ColinB]

Thanks Tony57 thinking about it, the Harveys Brewery wagon specials I got at the Bluebell Railway were also made by Dapol. Obviously they must do a line for all the preserved railways. I thought it was reasonable cheap when I bought it.

[ColinB]

Well if if was me Fazy, probably easier to get them made in China or Eastern Europe. Being so small you could air freight them. Commonise up on some of the parts, Hornby already do this but I am not so sure they realise it, seeing as they use different part numbers for the same thing. If you ever get time count how many types of stepped bolts they use on tender draw bars, lets face it they are never going to be to scale so why bother just use one type. I have got M2, M2.5 large heads, small heads, different shoulder lengths.

[ColinB]

I have just looked at my Harveys Brewery Wagon and stamped across the bottom is "Made in Wales", I am amazed, I thought everything got made in China.

[Bexhill Donkey]

It has to be said that the price increases are not Hornby's fault - there has been a loosening of fiscal policy under the Johnson government and inflation is picking up. We are starting to see a situation similar to that which afflicted the Callaghan government at the end of the 1970s with a 'Winter of Discontent' with bin men going on strike and so on. Hornby has to pay its staff in Margate, so what we are seeing is inflation which is bad news for modellers on a pension!

[Bexhill Donkey]

It has to be said that the price increases are not Hornby's fault - there has been a loosening of fiscal policy under the Johnson government and inflation is picking up. We are starting to see a situation similar to that which afflicted the Callaghan government at the end of the 1970s with a 'Winter of Discontent' with bin men going on strike and so on. Hornby has to pay its staff in Margate, so what we are seeing is inflation which is bad news for modellers on a pension!