Another price increase?

[Bexhill Donkey]

It has to be said that the price increases are not Hornby's fault - there has been a loosening of fiscal policy under the Johnson government and inflation is picking up. We are starting to see a situation similar to that which afflicted the Callaghan government at the end of the 1970s with a 'Winter of Discontent' with bin men going on strike and so on. Hornby has to pay its staff in Margate, so what we are seeing is inflation which is bad news for modellers on a pension!

[Stubaggieboy]

These price rises are totally unbelievable! Speaking as a person who has disposable income to pay for my obsession I have to draw the line somewhere. I have cancelled all my orders with my local shop because I feel we are all being taken for idiots!! My main gripe is that I ordered a nine car set of the future release of the HST blue Pullman back in April 2021 I have recently found out the cost of the power cars which is nearly £130 more than I paid for the Scotrail HST set!! As much as I want this set I find it disgraceful that the powers that be at Hornby think that enthusiast’s will pay what they ask for their products. Before anybody pipes up and tells me this is the new tooled version I know that but in my opinion the current version of the HST pack is excellent so what am I getting for the extra £100.00 improved couplings?? When Hornby released the mk3 coaches with so called improved couplings ie NEM as fitted to my Scotrail HST set they are useless! constant uncoupling and derailments due to the poor cam design.

Do Hornby think that young people entering into the hobby can afford their prices then they need to think again. I have said it before and I will say it again I fear for the future of Hornby especially with all that bad reviews of the Hush Hush even though mine was fine. I hope I am wrong!!!!

[JimJimJames]

You're spot on Stubaggieboy, this second price increase is a step too far. I pre-ordered (with a retailer) the class 91 last year when the price with retailer discount was £152.99. The price now is now RRP £217.99, so now nearly £200 with retailer discount. This is not acceptable to me. I know this is a newly tooled model, but looking at the pictures it's not that good. It's not worth £200. Hornby were over charging for the class 91 anyway. They did the new APT NDM for RRP £120.99. The only difference between the cost of making that and the class 91 is that the class 91 has lights, yet the original RRP of the class 91 was £169.99, £49 more that the NDM in the first place. Now the class 91 is even more. Why is the class 91 so much more than the APT NDM. They are both newly tooled models with motor and pantograph, DCC ready. The cost of lights for the class 91 should not make it £49 more in the first place, now the class 91 is nearly £100 more than the APT NDM! Hornby are taking the mickey, so I shall be cancelling my pre-orders.

[Fazy]

If you had pre ordered some models though the Hornby website the price increases do not affect you.

However once you cancel the order the price promised is no longer in place and if you change your mind the new price will now take effect.

Where it becomes interesting is does the same applies for shops? Who order from Hornby?

[Stubaggieboy]

£200.00 for a loco with a really awful plastic pantograph! I agree Hornby are really taking the you know what!!!

[ColinB]

I will answer a couple of the questions. As far as I know the new version of the class 43 has the original couplings, I asked that originally on another thread and nobody has said they have changed. As to the guarantee of price, if you pre order with a retailer, no that doesn't stand. I ordered the Hornby Dublo Merchant Navy from Bure Valley. It came out after September so it had the 10% price increase. Bure Valley phoned up to confirm that they had got the pre order but told me under Hornby's latest terms and conditions they could not honour the original price. Bure Valley are generally pretty fair so I have no reason to dispute what they said. Of course if you ordered it off the Hornby site they do currently honour the price, how long for I don't know, but they are full price. So if you ordered the P2 when it was first announced, then if Hornby honour their prices then you will effectively get 20% off. That is why I wonder if they will still honour the prices. I wonder if that was another reason Rails stopped dealing with Hornby, generally if you pre ordered off them the price was fixed.

[ColinB]

JimJimJames a better comparison is with the new Bachmann class 90, similar shaped loco, will probably have a whole array of lights settings as Bachmann do. A pantogragh that is controllable by DCC and the whole lot is just over £200, probably cheaper that the Hornby class 91. Bachmann also let their Retailers discount more so you very rarely pay the full price. Oh I forgot, and a properly engineered DCC fitment where the biggest issue is getting the body off.

[XJR1300]

Happy New year all.

My first post and I'm a very new, returning to the hobby just before Christmas, after almost 50yrs!

I placed an order direct with Hornby on 16 Dec, my first loco buy ever, all others being when I was a kid and bought for me, even if I added pocket money.

I ordered R3841 Hush Hush 'British Enterprise' £219.99, (that arrived slightly damaged I would add)

R3639 LMS, Princess Coronation Class, ‘King George VI’ £208.99, X 2 R600 track £5.30 and X2 R601 double straight £6.30. Total £440.58

These now retail from Hornby £241.99 (Although that's for R3840, R3841 is no longer listed) £229.99, R600 £5.98 and R601 £6.98 respectively. Total £484.94.

That's £44.36 more than I paid for exactly the same items, in a little over a week or so! R3639 and the track is I'm fairly certain, the very same stock sitting on Hornby's shelves when I ordered on the 16 Dec. Not absolutely certain when the increase took place, but I remember looking either Boxing day or soon after, before New Year and the prices had increased on line, very unlikely any new stock had been received post Christmas Day and between New Year.

Hornby your cashing in and profiteering pure and simple, not acceptable.

As a very new customer with expendable income, I'm seriously thinking of halting my return to the hobby or buying second hand, I'm very unlikely to buy any more at these prices. How on earth youngsters are suppose to afford your products even before these price hikes is beyond me.

[dh2807]

I too have just cancelled all my pre-orders. The government imposed limit on my company and state pension will simply be insufficient to cover the projected significant energy price increase coupled with continued fuel costs, food price increase and the inevitable council tax rise. I have to live in the real world and accept my life long hobby will have to now go on hold. I am very disappointed. I will be asking all my family/friends to gift me vouchers from retailers for birthday and Christmas presents so at least I can have something new.

[atom3624]

@XJR1300 take care what you order and where.

KG VI you were ripped off, sorry to say. This pops up frequently at reputable shops as well as Ebay both new and used.

Even the former (new) can be found for £150.

@dh2807 agreed with cancelling pre-orders or reducing them. I'm going to see how much of the 'financial storm' I can weather, but things have generally become substantially more expensive in the last 12 months - combined effects of Ever Given, COVID and Brexit probably the majority stakeholders ... as well as a developing world I suppose.

Al.

[XJR1300]

HI Al,

Yes I realised that about 10mins after I'd ordered and found Hatton's! Once bitten and all that. Something Hornby and many others, don't seem to care about! Unfortunately I think they are just banking on the fact they, Hornby control the supply and from what I've read are cutting off retail outlets from pre order and supply. Something I think they'll end up regretting in the long run, British motorcycle and car manufactures ring any bells..... greed!

As said unless Hornby start playing the game on pricing, I'll go with pre owned or just stop.

[wairoalbany]

I will say it is not only happening in the UK. Here, in the U.S we are experiencing similar high prices for model railroad equipment.

I wish Athearn would return to making the "Blue Box" line which were significantly cheaper IMO akin to the Hornby Railroad range.

The new locomotives and rolling stock are incredibly expensive IMO. My local hobby shop is selling brand new passenger cars for 74 pounds or $100 with some freight cars being not far behind.

I generally source my British trains from the UK and adding shipping to that has really forced me to cut back on what I can buy. Thankfully I put the APT on pre order months ago and have saved money for it. However, outside of the APT I doubt I will be buying more than 1 UK outline locomotive and rolling stock per year unless second hand. TBH the same goes for new U.S model items as well.

[ColinB]

XJR1300 Bure Valley is also another nice place to deal with, plus all their profits go to supporting the preserved railway and they test the loco before sending it to you. So if you do have to pay ridiculous prices, let someone do something good with the money. There are many more. Once you have done the search on EBay do a Google search, you will be amazed what pops up, sometimes savings of over £50.00. Hereford Models are very good too, they don't seem to alter their prices to the new stock prices, so if it is an old loco you will get it at the price they originally put it on the shelf for.

[new lad on block]

Hi, just over two years ago I decided to concentrate on buying second hand items. There are literally thousands of 00 gauge items for sale on the internet and other model outlets. All budgets are catered for, as well as most modelling tastes. Some may need a bit of TLC but the price often reflects that.

As with most purchases do your Research and It is usually possible to find the discontinued item you want, at a reasonable price. Most reputable outlets will also guarantee the item as well.

As with buying new, nice to have one, second hand sometimes does the same job, at the fraction of the price.

[XJR1300]

Bure Valley is also another nice place to deal with, plus all their profits go to supporting the preserved railway and they test the loco before sending it to you. So if you do have to pay ridiculous prices, let someone do something good with the money. There are many more. Once you have done the search on EBay do a Google search, you will be amazed what pops up, sometimes savings of over £50.00. Hereford Models are very good too, they don't seem to alter their prices to the new stock prices, so if it is an old loco you will get it at the price they originally put it on the shelf for.

 

 

@ColinB thank you for the Bure Valley contact, I've visited them many times during my stays in Cromer and Overstrand.

 

 

[atom3624]

The bottom line is that there are often - not always - sales items available, some very 'interesting', not just poor sellers - so the initiative is to narrow down what is 'interesting' to you, perhaps not a specific model, then hunt it down ...

I too have used Bure Valley, and that they use funds to maintain an active full scale railway is admirable.

Al.

[Chrissaf]

@XJR1300,

As a new forum member, just pointing out that the "Blue button with white arrow" is not a "Reply to this post" button. The preferred way to reply is to use the "Reply Text Box" at the bottom of the page and click the green "Post Reply" button.

You started your reply with @ColinB, this is more than adequate to indicate that you are replying to Colin's post. There is no real need to also use the 'blue button' as well to duplicate the whole of Colin's previous reply. Particularly as Colin's reply was only two posts up on the same page.

The membership majority ignore the 'blue button' or use it sparingly only when absolutely necessary and the forum works very efficiently as a result.

[XJR1300]

@Chrissaf I didn't use "Blue button with white arrow" I used the drop down menu from the 3 dots, top right hand corner. When using many other forums, I belong to, using a 'quote' is standard so that others reading later can follow, replies to points made and why. If the using the "Blue button with white arrow" is such a potential issue that requires moderator intervention, why not remove it!

Thanks for the info though.

Mod note: Blue button removal has full mod consensous, and the removal has been campaigned for, for more than two years. So far fallen on deaf Hornby ears.

3 dots "quote reply"or blue button, is the same function. We are not campaigning to remove the 3 dot "quote reply" option, just the blue button that all new members use by default as they rarely realise the 3 dot tools menu even exists. It is still preferred however by mods that on this custom forum which doesn't conform to what other "off the shelf" forums do that the "Reply" option, which is the top option of the 3 dot list is the preferred reply method. Apart from which the "Quoted Reply" implementation is flawed, because although it duplicates the text, it doesn't give any indication at all as to who posted it. Therefore the @username method is more informative.

[Commander Shepard]

@stubaggieboy

They’re catering for the serious rivet counter types ( see simons interview about the dublo merchant and future ) The problem with that is, it will price young people out, and eventually the older Rivet counters & peeps with disposable income will die and no new people would’ve been brought into the hobby as they couldn’t afford it, and then you go out of business if things are not changed. Plenty of places in Eastern Europe that charge the same if not a bit less than China, ( inc shipping ) mehanos factories in Romania and Serbia for instance.considering China’s new wage laws, also it would be nice to be made in a country with less human rights issues.

[Stubaggieboy]

Commander Shepard

I couldn’t agree more.

[ColinB]

I have seen it where I used to work if a manager gets it in his head China is cheaper, in our case it was India, they will go literally to the ends of the earth to the detriment of the company to keep up the pretence.

Probably everyone knows this as I post it quite often, but for people that don't know, Amazon has flash sales on some Hornby items. I bought several Hornby large locos last summer at prices cheaper than anyone, the bad new is they only do it for a day on a single item, so you have to keep looking on their site. Someone did say they lower it for so many sales so once they got those it goes up again.

[DBfan]

Maybe we in the UK pay these high prices to subsidise the rest of the world..........

Part of the problem in the uk is the huge cost of VAT

 

 

The English rate of VAT is in line with most of Europe. In some countries VAT of 7% is charged on books and printed material.

[ColinB]

I think we established long ago the increased cost is nothing to do with VAT, mainly rhe price of materials, shipping and increased labour costs in China. Of course due to Covid, more remote working. Add into this major mess ups with the A2/3 models and the Hush Hush models. Hornby according to last years results lost money again and they are not making enough models at the moment to make a suitable profit. So they have decided to increase the prices hoping that it will magically improve their revenue. They are doing all the things for a company with difficulties, outsourcing fundamentals at the detriment of their product. Hopefully 2022 will be a better year for them, all they can hope for is that Bachmann put up their prices.

[XJR1300]

@ColinB If Bachmann have got any real business foresight/sense they'll keep their prices the same or even drop them. Totally undercutting Hornby and knock them out of the market, that's total business sense sad as that might be.

Unfortunately IMHO Hornby are doing the/going up the same old route many British companies have done. They keep producing the same old stuff, the same old way (recent quality, packaging and damaged issues) as it's all about max profit as fast as possible. Financial backers want their dividend within a limited time and will take it even though the business can't support it, i.e. not sorting quality issues and price hikes. Their only in for short term gain, sell on their shares when it fails walk away having made their money.

It's very sad, but i fear Hornby will sink unless it changes direction.

[ColinB]

Yes XJR1300 I agree, not so sure about Bachmann dropping their prices, they might see it as an opportunity to get more profit, but to be quite honest I don't think the market is out there. I also agree about Hornby, still uses the 8 pin socket where other manufacturers are going over to better methods that make fitting easier. I managed to accidentally drop my Bachmann 9F tender on the tiled kitchen floor, I was amazed when I picked it up nothing was broken, a push in piece had fell off but that went back. The average Hornby loco breaks getting it in or out of the packing. Perhaps if they stopped listening to RMWeb and made their locos for reliability rather than exceptional detail (that seems to fall off) they might get somewhere.