The Last Ninja Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Hi all, There is a new version of the HM7000 App that was released on 13 February 2024, version number 1.3. After returning from Europe in the week, I immediately began testing the latest 1.3 update of the HM7000 App on my iPad Pro (M2 Chip) and Apple iPhone 14 Pro Max. Unfortunately, I've discovered a significant bug that everyone should be aware of before they consider updating the App. The new 1.3 version bug prevents the modification of sound profiles on locomotive models and HM7000 decoders. The sound problem occurred when I tried to update the new sound to both my original Hornby W1 Hush Hush locomotives. I intended to apply the new W1 Original sound profile to the two original W1's I own. I also attempted to apply the new streamlined sound profile to both the Photographic Grey and Blue British Railways Hornby W1 Streamlined Hush Hush. I could not select the install profile tab. I tried other locos that I know the sound profiles work on. However, this issue also extends to all my other decoders on different locos I tested, irrespective of their decoder types (21-pin and 8-pin, respectively). The option to update the sound profile is consistently greyed out on both the iPad and iPhone, as evidenced by the attached screenshots. This issue persists regardless of the number of locomotives registered on each device (55 on the iPad Pro and 7 on the iPhone), debunking my initial theory of a device-based limitation to 20 locomotives. In fact every loco I tried to change the sound profile to on both the iPad Pro and the iPhone had this issue meaning there is a serious bug in the HM7000 App's update. To further investigate, I used an older iPad from my game development studio, running the old version 1.1 of the app. Remarkably, it allowed for sound profile changes across all affected models, including the application of the new sound profiles for both W1 variants of original and streamlined. This indicates a confirmed bug introduced with the recent update and not a bug in the sound files. As I own a software publishing and development studio, I applied the same testing criteria my team would do as if it were a video game. I am also in possession of some new HM7000 decoders (both 8 pin and 21 pin) and even applying any sound profile to a new decoder has the same result if you opt to instal the detected stand steam profile on linking the decoder to the app. If you don’t opt to install the base profile on a new decoder you're good to go with selecting the sound profile you want and this bug won't effect you. In order to apply new sound profiles to an HM7000 decoder I need to deregister a loco on either device using App version 1.3 and then register it on the old company studio game-testing iPad which has version 1.1 of the App on. Once the sound profile I require is loaded, I then deregister it from the old iPad with version 1.1 and then load it back onto the devices using version 1.3 as a fix. I updated Carl and George at Hornby with my results. George came back within 15 minutes and confirmed Hornby was aware of the bug and stated the following workaround to the bug. He said ”We are aware of this bug and are in the process of fixing it. There are ways round it: When on the Profiles screen of your selected Profile, tap on the Decoder Selection Box > Tap on Remove Selected Decoder > Tap on Decoder Selection Box again > Tap on your Decoder. The Profile will now be ready to install. This only occurs via the Locomotive Settings screen route. Another option is to go to Settings > Profiles > Choose your profile > Tap on Decoder Selection Box > Tap on HM7000 decoder > Tap on Install Locomotive Profile." I have now tested both solutions and I can confirm that both ways suggested by George work. Just thought everyone should know this workaround in case you are seeking to or have updated your HM7000 App. Also, new sound profiles were released on the same day as most people are aware of. However, there have also been updates to a large number of sound files on older released sound profiles. Check which ones you have and need an update. Use the same process suggested by George to update your new sound profile. If you have the old version of 1.1 of the app you can update your old sound files to the new ones by going through the process either George or I suggested. Hope this helps everyone. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 This was previously notified on this and other forums and the workaround method detailed. Nothing new there. What is new is the import of TTS function mapping, but this has a bug that is being worked on and the workaround has also been posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Last Ninja Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 Ok well, it's not on this forum and I cannot see it in any other thread under HM7000. Please can you direct me to the other forums? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Is it this one? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 And this is the external forum link to the TTS function map import https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/176499-hornby-2023-bluetooth-decoders-and-control-system/?do=findComment&comment=5440524 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Last Ninja Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 Thank you for that. Most appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Last Ninja Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Brew Man said: Is it this one? That is not the one 96RAF was referring to. He was linking to a different forum. It also does not have a clear fix noted on the solution. But is still most appreciated. Thank you. Edited February 24 by The Last Ninja Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) That is interesting. I had a few issues loading a profile onto a new HM7000, I did it exactly ad I did it before. I eventually got it to work in the end with a lot of messing around. I did wonder. Edited February 24 by ColinB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 RAF reported internal and external topics on this with the one quoted by Brewman being the internal. In it Dragon reports finding the work-around all by himself. My point - there is no critical bug in the HM | DCC app (HM7000s are decoders not apps). There is a non-critical bug requiring a slightly convoluted process to install profiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Last Ninja Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 9 hours ago, Fishmanoz said: RAF reported internal and external topics on this with the one quoted by Brewman being the internal. In it Dragon reports finding the work-around all by himself. My point - there is no critical bug in the HM | DCC app (HM7000s are decoders not apps). There is a non-critical bug requiring a slightly convoluted process to install profiles. Hi Fishmanoz. As a developer and publisher of video games for 42 years, my experience has given me a nuanced understanding of bug classification and its implications on user experience and system stability. It's crucial to differentiate between a critical bug and a critical crash bug, as well as to recognise there are even more severe categories, such as severe critical crash bugs, that can affect a broader range of users and systems. In the context of the HM | DCC app and HM7000 decoders, the issue we're discussing does indeed qualify as a critical bug. This classification is not because it causes the system to crash, but because it significantly impedes a core function of the application - in this case, the ability to upload a sound profile. This is a primary feature that users expect to work seamlessly, and any impediment directly impacts their experience and satisfaction with the product. Comparing this to a critical crash bug, which would bring the entire system down or severely disrupt service for all users, the current issue doesn't reach that level of severity. However, it's a mistake to underestimate the impact of what might be termed 'non-crash' critical bugs. These issues can erode user trust and satisfaction, potentially leading to a decline in user base or negative reviews, which are especially damaging in the fickle and competitive landscape of decoders. Furthermore, when we talk about critical crash bugs, we're discussing a category that represents a complete failure affecting all users and requiring immediate and urgent resolution to prevent widespread disruption. While the bug in question doesn't fall into this category, it doesn't diminish its importance or the necessity for a swift resolution hence it is a critical bug. From my perspective as someone deeply involved in creating and maintaining gaming experiences, every bug that significantly affects user interaction needs to be treated with urgency. Let's continue this dialogue with an understanding that while not all critical issues cause crashes, their impact on the user experience can be just as significant. It's this understanding that drives our priorities in bug resolution and enhances the quality and reliability of our products in video games. This is a critical bug. I hope that helps your understanding of code development and common phrases we as a video games business use in the development of code. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) Critical/ non critical. Gosh, it’s a hobby, tis only model trains. I don’t need a sermon with my Sunday breakfast. Edited February 25 by Yelrow 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Thanks for the highly detailed explanation Ninja. However, using the approach taken by Yelrow that this is but a model rail forum, I believe many lay users will be misled by the topic title as to the functionality of the updated app. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritInVanCA Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Just to support the moderators on this. I used to manage enterprise software testing for a Fortune 50 company. Any bug with a workaround was non critical and this was not entertainment software. This was for running a global business. Of course you try to exit testing without any bugs but stuff happens. Just saying there is not one global standard for this. The challenge is always getting the fix in the hands of the user 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Last Ninja Posted February 27 Author Share Posted February 27 3 hours ago, BritInVanCA said: Just to support the moderators on this. I used to manage enterprise software testing for a Fortune 50 company. Any bug with a workaround was non critical and this was not entertainment software. This was for running a global business. Of course you try to exit testing without any bugs but stuff happens. Just saying there is not one global standard for this. The challenge is always getting the fix in the hands of the user BritinVanCA. The central concern arises from Hornby's decision not to post any workaround for a known issue on their official site. Although the conversation could become more constructive with Hornby officially releasing workarounds, it's essential to recognize the company's efforts in updating its documentation. For example, the manual for the HM7000 decoders has been updated by Hornby to version 1.3, which I've attached here for convenience, yet it lacks mention of a workaround for the current issue. This gap in communication might lead new users to erroneously conclude their decoder is defective and return it to the retailer, thus highlighting the severity of the issue. This is why it is a critical bug as I explained above until a workaround is officially published by Hornby. It's important to clarify that my intention was merely to support fellow HM7000 decoder users by providing potential solutions. However, given the challenges and the nature of the feedback received, I've decided to step back from offering any further assistance or advice on this or any other topic within the forum. This decision comes from a place of reflection on the value and reception of shared knowledge, especially when faced with unsolicited critiques on the petty technical nuances of bug issue classification by some other members of the forum. My hope is that Hornby will recognize the importance of clear and comprehensive support materials including workarounds for their products through their official channels benefiting all users and potentially reducing misunderstandings, return of products and frustration. HM7000_Series_Decoders_Reference_Manual_V1.3.0_-_201123.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 In all my years of tech writing I have never ever seen a user manual contain 'work arounds'. A tech manual is an exact document and should not carry temporary information. In the aircraft industry we had an advance notice system to alert users of problems and detail the remedy if any. I would not expect a model railway product manual to strictly abide by those rules but nor would I expect it to contain temporary information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon Sailing Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Gentlemen, Gentlemen, let’s not all fall out over this…..please. Surely we can all agree that the Sound Profile upload issue caused by the latest App update clearly presents a problem, regardless of what label we apply to it. It is a fact that, until it is resolved, it is going to particularly troublesome for a new or first-time user of HM7000, as they try to upload their first sound profile(s). Surely, the function of this Forum is to help our fellow modellers find their way through issues, however they may be caused. This particular issue creates a stumbling block for a new user from the very first time they use the App and their new decoder…..and therefore sounds like its an important one to me to get resolved soonest. I know that the Hornby development team are on the case, but in the meantime, its down to those of us on this Forum who have the relevant knowledge, to help plug the gap while the fix is being deployed. Pax Vobiscum 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM6 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Steady on Dragon, your voice of reason will likely get you suspended.🥴 Just to add to your comment, when the app launched, it was in its most basic form. Since then quite a few extras have been added, presumably adding to the complexity of all the interactions within the app. I would assume that each change to the app has more potential to find a clash and consequently longer to diagnose and fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Dragon, i dont think anyone is in danger of falling out. My point was that in order for posts to be useful and meaningful, they must be precise and to the point. Long drawn out answers, however, well meant, dont get read. I for one, switch off, after about 10 lines. Of course its frustrating, new technology, usually is, but bullet points, are usually enough, for most. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Unfortunately, this thread seems to keep on getting further into the doo-doo, no matter what anyone says. And I’ll put my hand up for having started the process. V1.3 of the manual would have needed remarkable foresight to cover the issue too. It was released before the app update wasn’t it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Perhaps there could be a generic pinned ‘HM7k bugs/workarounds’ thread? (like the suggestions for improvement one) That way if people encounter/find something they can simply list the fault, impact on function & workaround (and completely avoid thread titles contentious or otherwise) Once a particular bug has been addressed - the poster can report their post to Mods for removal - so the thread is kept as a current temporary addendum to the manual. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim-378549 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 I've just had this problem, but with the Android app. I'll try the workarounds, but can anyone confirm if this is for both iOS and Android? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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