Generic Hornby Username Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Sam’s Trains is out with another video on Hornby TT:120. While most people here probably don’t care, I thought it was in the interest of the scale to review the video. With 150,000 subscribers, he has the ability to impact sentiments surrounding British TT. For that reason, it’s in our best interest to monitor what he says. The video is divided into multiple sections, so I’ll go through section by section. Let’s begin! “What is Hornby TT?”- This section is a fair description of the advantages of Hornby TT120. To Sam’s credit, he does a good job describing why someone might choose Hornby TT:120. These include a good size between OO and N, brand new toolings and features, and the ability to fit the latest Hornby decoders. While he omits interoperability with European TT, I think in general his summary is fair and on point. “What’s available?/Is this enough?”- He describes the current range. Then he starts getting critical. He argues that the range needed to expand much more rapidly if it’s going to catch on. This is both true and untrue. On one hand, Hornby itself knows that rapid expansion is needed. At the same time, it’s clear that Hornby TT:120’s success has counterintuitively slowed the release of new models. Hornby itself would agree that the current range is not enough, but they can’t really do anything about it in the short-term. But then he claims “a lack of urgency.” That’s silly. As of today, five new tooled locomotives are set for release in calendar year 2024 (Class 43, Class 50, Duchesses, Class 66, Mystery Small-Tank Loco). That will push the tally up to 8 total tooling projects (including the A1/A3, A4, and 08). “Is TT succeeding?”- This is where he goes off the rails. He shares a poll he conducted on his YouTube channel. There were 2000 respondents, and 88% of them voted “I’ve decided against modeling in TT.” From that, Sam drew the conclusion that TT is in trouble. But this is bizarre for multiple reasons. While it’s true Sam has put out TT and more recently N scale content, his channel’s audience is primarily OO. Of course a poll sent to a group of OO modelers will yield results favoring OO scale! It’s not representative. In all honesty, I’m kind of surprised that 12% of his audience claimed to be modeling in TT. After less than two years, and with limited selection, TT already has 12% of Sam’s Trains viewers participating? That’s actually kind of hilariously impressive. Then he tries to insinuate the sales haven’t been doing well. In a since deleted video (January 2023 TT Talk), Simon explained that TT120 sets he had expected to last for nearly a year sold out in a few weeks. Additional runs of the Scotsman and Easterner sets have sold out multiple times. Sam seems to think that because the sets are still available right now, that means they aren’t selling well. But as I type the Easterner sets (both DCC and DC) are sold out, with additional runs scheduled. Other products such as straight track, train platforms, rail joiners, etc. have seen consistent supply problems. But to make matters worse, he points to Hornby’s decision to expand the pool of retailers selling TT as indicative of a problem. But it’s the exact opposite. Hornby didn’t include other retailers because most other retailers didn’t want to sell TT. They thought it was going to bomb. Now that TT has proven itself, Hornby is able to partner with other retailers. The fact you have Rails of Sheffield stocking TT is mind-blowing. Partially, that has to do with management forging a peace with Rails, but also it indicates that Rails wants a piece of the action. “Hornby’s biggest mistake”- He claims that Hornby should have cancelled their Class 31 and J94 tank engine. He argues that Hornby only included those in its range because it wanted to spoil Heljan’s attempts to enter the market. There’s no evidence of this. The original phase (Phase 1, Phase 2, Phase 3, Phase 4) were supposed to last 6 months each. That means the Class 31 and J94 were supposed to have been released right around this time of year or in a few months. Development work on them was probably already advanced. And Simon was already creating the basic TT plan in the early 2010s. That’s right, the catalogue you see was largely based on work more than a decade old. The Class 31 is a popular model. It’s debatable whether cancelling it would have been worthwhile. The video ends with praise of the models we have received. But he still says that right now he couldn’t recommend the scale. Also, he claims that TT will probably force Hornby into bankruptcy. Groan. He says TT needs twenty models and 50 wagons/coaches to establish itself. But in order to do that, Hornby would go bankrupt. In conclusion, remember there are a nice variety of newly tooled products scheduled for release in 2024. 5 locomotives (Class 43, Class 50, Class 66, Duchesses, Small Tank Loco), 4 coaches (Mark 3, Mark 2F, Mark 2E, LMS 57), 2 sets (HST, British Pullman), and 3 wagons (HAAs, TTAs, 21 Tons). This will outpace the combined 2022/2023 tooling releases of 3 locomotive, 4 wagons, 2 sets, and 2 coaches (Pullmans, MK 1s). And April is likely to bring some new liveries to several of the existing products. There’s reason to be optimistic! Here's the video (featuring the clickbait title one would expect): 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carltonf Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 I’ve stopped visiting his channel. He’s like a lot of social media “experts” - more often than not he hasn’t a clue what he’s talking about. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Did he read the instructions this time before commentating - not a chance. Did he get it wrong again - more than likely. I am surprised several of the big names hven't taken him to tasi over his disinformation, but no doubt that would zoom his click rate. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-L Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Just watched the ‘mistake’ video. He really bases a lot of his assumptions on that poll doesn’t he? He actually states at one point that 90% of railway modellers have no interest in the scale, as if his poll somehow represents all of the market? Theres no doubt Hornby are behind schedule, and the lack of new info and new locos is frustrating, but to claim it’s a mistake or failure is to ignore the sheer number of A1s and A4s Hornby have shifted since the launch. We know that they’ve restocked numerous times, and if the batch numbers are to be believed then they’ve sold somewhere near 10,000 of these locos between the sets and the individual locos. That’s pretty impressive! Id say the April announcements will be the true test of how successful the range has been so far. If April brings new model announcements and firm dates for the roll out of the phase 3 locos (especially the 0-6-0 and class 37 / class 47) then naysayers like Sam will not have a leg to stand on. April will either be the boost that gets things into high gear or a red flag that Hornby are pulling back from the scale. My money is on the former. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) Sam is naturally addressing his audience - as stated by others the poll results only show who a proportion of them are. He is predominantly interested in OO - but is willing to ‘try’ other scales if he finds them appealing enough. Unless something tempts him to ditch OO & swap to another scale he certainly won’t be advising anyone else to. He appears to feel (threatened?) that Hornby supporting 2 scales potentially weakens their position in the OO market. Personally I’d suggest that the OO market is a little bit more competitive than Hornby would like it to be & therefore having (almost) exclusive access to British TT:120 RTR market is providing them with an extra market that is financially rewarding. Edited February 24 by LTSR_NSE 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Amazing how someone who is so inept and dim can project ‘his professional insight’ He needs to stop playing on his Mum’s carpet and get an education. Fraser Group just weighed in behind Hornby with a significant investment, love him or hate him, Mike Ashley does not waste his money. Maybe Sam is a better businessman man than Mike Ashley…… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM6 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Fox 17 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Who is actually bothered by a review anyway? A review is that persons own ideas, end of story. If he says its no good does that mean no one would ever buy it? I doubt it. We all have our own minds/thoughts/ideas which can be totally different to anyone else. It is the same for model railways, holidays, restaurants etc. We had our best holiday ever in Egypt yet a lot of reviews (of the same hotel) said it was terrible and never go. Reviewers do it just to get themselves known and nothing else. Magazines are just as bad, a few years ago the Heljan Beyer Garratt was "a gold medal winner" in their eyes yet 90% were returned as either fallen apart, ceased up not working, motors burnt out after 30 minutes. I know because I took the motor apart and the commutator had melted. Were the magazines interested in a follow up, NO. At least I got a new motor from Heljan then sold the loco on and stated what had happened. A "review" as such should be show a photo of a new item and that is it, just leaving people to make up their own minds. ps, how many people here saw a review of the Scotsman set before we all bought one, initially none as the reviews came out after the first batches were all sold out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMD Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Thanks for raising this GHU. Yes of course Sam is only offering one view but it is greatly influential. Like GHU and others I think where he goes wrong is in the interpretation he makes of the data from his poll. It’s clear that other ways (and I’d suggest, much better ways) are not considered at all. It’s hard to get away from the sense that he used his polling to confirm his presuppositions instead of the other way around and let his view be informed by the data. To me the key thing is the 6%. 6% of his tens of thousands of subscribers (if we extrapolate from those who actually polled) are now in the hobby simply because of TT120. That is a phenomenal figure. If TT120 is responsible for anything close to a six percentage point increase in the user base of this hobby that is tremendous and well done Hornby and Peco for finally expanding the base. I cannot think of a aisngle thing in thirty years that has had that impact. I left a comment on Sam’s channel along these lines. I think the fundamental misunderstanding for Sam is that TT is not in competition with OO. It’s in competition with non-modellers other options for hobbies. It’s a gateway to railway modelling. More modern. More accurate. More space efficient. More compatible. More compelling. That’s the pitch. It’s Hornby’s best bet in decades to break out beyond the traditional modeller and get new custom. If they succeed then it will do the entire hobby a massive favour. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GMD Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 53 minutes ago, John-L said: Just watched the ‘mistake’ video. He really bases a lot of his assumptions on that poll doesn’t he? He actually states at one point that 90% of railway modellers have no interest in the scale, as if his poll somehow represents all of the market? Theres no doubt Hornby are behind schedule, and the lack of new info and new locos is frustrating, but to claim it’s a mistake or failure is to ignore the sheer number of A1s and A4s Hornby have shifted since the launch. We know that they’ve restocked numerous times, and if the batch numbers are to be believed then they’ve sold somewhere near 10,000 of these locos between the sets and the individual locos. That’s pretty impressive! Id say the April announcements will be the true test of how successful the range has been so far. If April brings new model announcements and firm dates for the roll out of the phase 3 locos (especially the 0-6-0 and class 37 / class 47) then naysayers like Sam will not have a leg to stand on. April will either be the boost that gets things into high gear or a red flag that Hornby are pulling back from the scale. My money is on the former. I would just say that Martyn Weaver was playing down expectations for the April event at Glasgow yesterday. With so much already announced via the phases we could be in for a low key event. If so I don’t think that of itself indicates Hornby are losing their nerve with TT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 A review is a very subjective event - one / or group perhaps - person(s)' opinion related to what they consider to be the fundamentally key issues / points of interest. This borne in mind, it's no surprise there are many 'dislikers' of Sam's videos. I often use Sam as an interesting reference point - bearing in mind the subjective opinions - to assist in making a potential purchase decision. I could be looking at motor performance, lamp bracket / cab detail, etc. - things not necessarily mentioned by Sam but which I'll be looking at during the video. Other details could be body removal / servicing - how easy / difficult. These videos are very helpful to me, whilst only occasionally listening to what he's actually presenting. Al. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr2002 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, John-L said: Id say the April announcements will be the true test of how successful the range has been so far. If April brings new model announcements and firm dates for the roll out of the phase 3 locos (especially the 0-6-0 and class 37 / class 47) then naysayers like Sam will not have a leg to stand on. April will either be the boost that gets things into high gear or a red flag that Hornby are pulling back from the scale. My money is on the former. I strongly suspect you are going to be seriously disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 11 minutes ago, GMD said: I would just say that Martyn Weaver was playing down expectations for the April event at Glasgow yesterday. With so much already announced via the phases we could be in for a low key event. If so I don’t think that of itself indicates Hornby are losing their nerve with TT. April isn’t necessarily make or break, but TT:120 appeared to be SK’s pet project - hopefully the TT:120 brand manager has taken on the championing/ demanding investment role - and Martyn isn’t having to pick favourites between the two scales! Edited February 24 by LTSR_NSE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 If Samuel was to attend a course in statistical analysis, based on his current form he wouldn’t graduate. Hornby had greater revenues from TT:120 in 3 months than Bachmann Inc (US) did in a year…. And the parent of Bachmann, Kader Holdings are in deep financial crisis… while Hornby have just secured a significant investment. TT:120 for Hornby has been an overwhelming success, boosting revenues, drawing in new modellers and boosting the hobby. Sadly YT does work better on negativity and people like Sam who are a YT business will blather on about things they don’t understand for engagement, that earns them money. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John-L Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 33 minutes ago, mr2002 said: I strongly suspect you are going to be seriously disappointed. Perhaps. But it doesn’t seem unreasonable to expect firm release dates for phase 3 locos. They are supposed to be available within the following twelve months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic Hornby Username Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 18 minutes ago, GMD said: I would just say that Martyn Weaver was playing down expectations for the April event at Glasgow yesterday. With so much already announced via the phases we could be in for a low key event. If so I don’t think that of itself indicates Hornby are losing their nerve with TT. I think this is right. I do expect we will get some word on the Small-Tank Locomotive. It will also be the time spotlight the upcoming British Pullman set. The last we heard it was slotted for an April release. From there, we'll get new liveries for the A1s, A3s, A4s, and Pullmans. I get the sense that Martyn is trying to deliver on existing projects before promising new ones. That's fine by me. I do think it would be in Hornby's best interest to recommit to the previously announced projects. Even if it's a statement along the lines of, "we remain committed to releasing previously announced products in 2025 and beyond." Lots of people are counting on Class 47s, Class 37s, CFAs, Castle Classes, etc. Giving them a little encouragement would be sound. But again, the numbers speak for themselves. 2024 is going to be a good year, with 5 locomotives, 4 coaches, 2 sets, and 3 wagons. The total number of HST products set for release in 2024 is 29 (23 coaches, 5 train packs, and 1 set). 2024 is not going to be a slow year by any metric. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritInVanCA Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 I’m sorry to say I used to “go to bat” for Sam but this video made me mad and I told him so. Not that he is going to listen. It’s more negative click bait just like Jenny Kirk was talking about last week. As she said there is lots of positive in the hobby and that is where we should focus. I will say with the YouTube model more views drives more revenue for him so if all of us who think this is rubbish watch it we are helping his bottom line. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 10 hours ago, Rallymatt said: He needs to stop playing on his Mum’s carpet He did an open and honest Q&A video a while back - his girlfriend listed all the questions based upon comments on his channel. He was essentially crying in his beer about why are folk nasty to him. It is his carpet, he doesn't live with his mum, he wears carpet slippers all the time and gets gip from everyone for it. He openly admits that he makes a good living from his channel. He does however have an impressive collection of locos and prides himself on keeping them in good repair. That was the only video of his I have watched and listened to all the way thru'. At one point I even felt sorry for the twerp. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris98 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 I added my comment to his very poor video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 It’s his house, but the carpet came from his mum’s house, he has said that. YT does love negative or argumentative comment because it fires up traffic and that makes money. Choosing to target TT:120 is logical for his bottom line, it’s the fastest growing sector of the Hobby, by creating conflict it gets views and feedback, quite a synical way to scalp a living off people in what is a creative hobby. If he had chosen almost any other subject, it wouldn’t draw much of a response. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 All I can say is amazing, were you guys watching the same video. I watched his video and nothing he said was untrue. Hornby don't have enough finances to develop the whole of the range immediately. Looking at their latest balance sheet that has to be true. Anyone looking at this years catalogue or the rereleased 8F with Railroad parts at maximum retail price, knows something is not going too well. He is also right about there needing to be multiple suppliers, one only has to look at the amount of Phillips domestic products that have failed, or Sony Betamax, technically superior but beaten by cheaper simpler products shared amongst multiple manufacturers. As to the Frazer investment, when I read that I was worried, that guy usually has a reason to invest in something and it is not always what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 One must remember a comment made earlier, TT, was totally Simons baby. We dont know the cost of his launch, but Hornby have to be realistic. The Market demand for TT, now that the initial surge, has ended, is nothing like that of 00, which is their bread and butter, so the enthusiasm to keep producing new models, must take its place in the overall picture. I am not surprised an element of caution, has crept in, with new management. They have to protect their market share by bringing out long overdue back orders on 00 locos. Lets hope Sports Direct, like TT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby11 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 32 minutes ago, ColinB said: I watched his video and nothing he said was untrue. Hornby don't have enough finances to develop the whole of the range immediately. He is also right about there needing to be multiple suppliers As to the Frazer investment, when I read that I was worried, that guy usually has a reason to invest in something and it is not always what you think. "There's Lies, damned lies and statistics", with the stats he used (the "survey") very different conclusions could also have been drawn. 12% of responders said they'd model in TT120, that's very nearly as high as the numbers who model in N! Without a massive temporary increase in experienced staff (where from?) it is impossible to launch the "whole of the range immediately", what they've done is perfectly logical and exactly what Bachmann has done with their 009 range, or is that wrong as well? No-one disputes that, and, given time, there will be, maybe not British, but who knows. Again that can be read both ways, I doubt Hornby's assets are enough to make it worthwhile as a buy and cash in sale, so we'll have to wait and see, the opposing is that he'd only invest if he saw a return. The issue is that people like him are trying to draw conclussions about a scale that's only been in existance (in the UK) for just over a year. Hoestly, that's far too soon to be drawing the sorts of conclussions he's doing. Come back in 5 years (which is a reasonable time to fully launch a new sacale) and tell us then it was a failure... Or not... Edited February 25 by Hobby1707822967 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby11 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Yelrow said: One must remember a comment made earlier, TT, was totally Simons baby. We dont know the cost of his launch, but Hornby have to be realistic. The Market demand for TT, now that the initial surge, has ended, is nothing like that of 00, which is their bread and butter, so the enthusiasm to keep producing new models, must take its place in the overall picture. I am not surprised an element of caution, has crept in, with new management. They have to protect their market share by bringing out long overdue back orders on 00 locos. Lets hope Sports Direct, like TT. They actually need to do both, keep their 00 range going and invest in the TT range. I'm not sure where you get the idea the demand has ended, everything I see seems to point to the demand keeping going, as long as they can continue developing the range. the trouble with 00 is that most of the "sellers" have been made and so you see much duplication, Bachmann have realsied that and branced into 009, Hornby has as well and gone into TT, the difference is that TT has a lot more scope for future development than 009. Edited February 25 by Hobby1707822967 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moccasin Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Yelrow said: One must remember a comment made earlier, TT, was totally Simons baby. We dont know the cost of his launch, but Hornby have to be realistic. The Market demand for TT, now that the initial surge, has ended, is nothing like that of 00, which is their bread and butter, so the enthusiasm to keep producing new models, must take its place in the overall picture. I am not surprised an element of caution, has crept in, with new management. They have to protect their market share by bringing out long overdue back orders on 00 locos. Lets hope Sports Direct, like TT. While TT120 was SK’s idea, it will have needed full board approval and a business case and there’s still massive investment coming along with 4 different locomotive model classes due in 2024, along with new coaches. I’ve seen no sign of any change in attitude to TT120, any delay in phase 2 seems due to having to keep up with Phase 1 demand, particularly for the important entry sets. This year will enable catch up on Phase 2. We’ll see what news April 2nd brings. When I chatted to them at the Hornby stand at Model Rail Scotland, there was real enthusiasm for the new scale. They are seeing a whole new demographic in TT120 customers and while OO is important, TT120 has contributed significant cash flow that starts to pay off years of quiet investment. I’m not even sure that demand has tailed off - despite selling 000s of the Scotsman and Easterner sets, the Easterner has sold out again. The blue 08 is out of stock, so are the pullmans and one of the Flying Scotsman models. The upcoming diesels will likely see a new surge in demand as those with a more modern taste start to get more involved. Frasers Group are a significant investor/shareholder but don’t own Hornby, they have no-one on the board and are likely attracted by the turnaround already in place, which Hornby have partly attributed to TT120 in their reports. Why would they want to reduce revenue? Edited February 25 by Moccasin Should have checked better before posting 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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