StocktonLad70 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Hi, Very new to the whole world of HM7000 and Bluetooth decoders, and still in the process of deciding whether to go down the HM7000 route or conventional DCC. Just bought a Bachmann Class 20/3 that has a 22 pin socket, which the Hornby R7322 HM7000-21TXS: Bluetooth® & DCC Sound Decoder (21-pin) wont fit without some sort of convertor. Is my new loco incompatible with the HM7000 system or is there a work around. TIA John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 That is probably a Plux connector - note the centre blank pin - not a 21-pin MTC, you will need an adaptor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StocktonLad70 Posted February 25 Author Share Posted February 25 Yes, its a Plux 22. Can you please suggest an adapter? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HST Mainline Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 It had to happen at some point. Plux22 is very common here on the continent. Hornby needs to consider a Plux22 version of the HM7000, if they want it to compete with other decoders. You can maybe use an adapter, but many locos will not have the space for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM6 Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 Why should they? The locos in their range are a mix of 8, N18 and 21 so it’s no surprise that decoders for those configurations are what they sell. Maybe if they decided to fit decoders with Plux sockets then the decoders might follow but I can’t think why they would diversify further at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 ESU definitely do an adapter for PluX16 to N18, I have one in a TT loco. I’m sure last person who asked this found a PluX22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HST Mainline Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 14 hours ago, SteveM6 said: Why should they? If you want to adopt the whole Bluetooth Mesh setup and not run DCC at all, then you need a Plux22 compatible decoder. Regardless of Hornby uses the plug themselves or not. They will need to make it, because people buy other stuff than just Hornby. As it is now, you still need the DCC controller to run anything that is not one of the supported plugs. This takes away the whole "you don't need an expensive controller" sales argument. It takes away the "just power the track" argument. Basically it renders the entire Bluetooth Mesh redundant, because you can just use your existing controller as you always have. I think that is a shame, because I would love to ditch the controller and go full Bluetooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) I’m sure those on the HM DCC project are looking into feasibility of offering alternative plugs, would be a long term goal just as offering profiles, not just for Hornby models as it puts the HM DCC system out there as a ‘do it all control system’ not one focused on Hornby products. Like most things though, it takes time and graduated introduction like we have seen is sensible, there are always some issues to resolve. Edited February 26 by Rallymatt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM6 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Couldn't agree more RM, a gradual growth of the system over a period of time is what we are likely to see. There seems to be a trend these days for the public to expect everything immediately. We see endless comments about the time to release a new model after it's announcement and this year, where Hornby have been quite open about the need to catch up and consolidate, we get complaints about the lack of new models. TT has been the same, an expectation from parts of the customer base that Hornby should have released the whole of its back catalogue of OO rescaled to suit TT. I would suggest that no company exists that could manage a feat like that or sustain that level of investment. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon Sailing Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Absolutely agree Steve……the absurdity of some of the ‘demands’ out there, is ridiculous. It seems that patience and basic understanding of how longs things can take to come to fruition, no longer exists ! 🙄 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB61 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 Bachmann seem to be the only manufacturer going down the Plux22 route which puts me off buying their newer models. I have their Class 159 DMU and for that I fitted a Zimo Plux22 sound decoder (before HM7000 was out) from YouChoos which was twice the price of a 21 Pin TXS. Bachmann Class 31 or Accurascale Class 31, the latter I think as its 21 Pin with rotating fans (hope they work with TXS) on the DCC Ready version. Would be nice if Hornby produced a Plux22 TXS but that's probably not on their priority list at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HST Mainline Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) I think you guys misunderstood me. I was just explaining why a Plux 22 is needed. Not "demanding it". I am perfectly aware that things take time. It does not change the reason for providing the Plux22 though. It is a UK centric focus to think that the current lineup is enough. The majority of new continental models have Plux 22. If Hornby wants to be relevant in this segment, they will need to provide more plugs. Otherwise they do not have a complete system. Call me absurd - that's on you. Edited February 29 by HST Mainline 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic Hornby Username Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 9 minutes ago, HST Mainline said: I think you guys misunderstood me. I was just explaining why a Plux 22 is needed. Not "demanding it". I am perfectly aware that things take time. It does not change the reason for providing the Plux22 though. It is a UK centric focus to think that the current lineup is enough. The majority of new continental models have Plux 22. If Hornby wants to be relevant in this segment, they will need to provide more plugs. Otherwise they do not have a complete system. Call me absurd - that's on you. I agree a Plux 22 should be one of their longterm goals. Obviously, first priority goes to the standards Hornby uses in its UK/Continental models. But as you say, the more hardware Hornby creates the more likely it is to find its footing. I think HM7000s product strategy has been exactly right. Initially, they focused on getting it into the basic train sets. Now they are adding more complex features and addressing edge cases. With each update the entire product platform and system gets stronger. In the same way I think it would be smart for Hornby to eventually add sound profiles for locomotives they don't produce, I think adding more decoders will also be helpful. The big question is whether HM7000 exists to sell Hornby trains, or whether it's a serious DCC system in its own right. All indications are that they want this to be serious product with widespread appeal. From the way Hornby and its team talks, this is not some parlor trick aimed at Hornby train set buyers. Instead, this is the start of a longterm platform that will feature complete layout control. In order for HM7000 to reach its full potential, that will take supporting other industry standards. Obviously, patience is required. No offense to the fine people or products at Bachmann and Gaugemaster, but their new DCC systems seem incremental compared to HM7000. The sky is the limit! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HST Mainline Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 11 minutes ago, Generic Hornby Username said: I think HM7000s product strategy has been exactly right I completely agree. Right and logic. Of course you will want to serve your own products first. 12 minutes ago, Generic Hornby Username said: All indications are that they want this to be serious product with widespread appeal. ...yes and it will have. I keep going back to the app for programming. It is just so easy and fun. The general idea is really good, and I am looking forward to see what Hornby will have in store for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbo2 Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 I guess at the end of the day the Plux22 decision will come down to a profitable business case. If there is one, I'm sure they will consider it at some point in the future. Personally, I'd like to see a move to one standard connector and that's it, would make life easier when working out which decoder to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob773 Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 (edited) I would like to return to the original question of whether it's possible to fit an R7322 21-pin TXS decoder in a Bachmann loco with a Plux22 socket? I have just bought Bachmann's 9F ref 32-859A, assuming I would be able to fit an R7322 in it with no problem, like I was able to when I bought their Gresley V2 ref 35-202 a year ago. There is mention of adapters in this thread but no detailed information about whether they exist and, if they do, where to get them from. Is there not an adapter with long pins which fits into both sockets? I'd be really grateful if anyone can help, thanks very much. Edited June 15 by Rob773 Incorrect information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 (edited) @Rob773 a long pins (male to male) adaptor would be a quick way of blowing the decoder - Plux22 & 21Pin (despite using similar physical connection) use a different/incompatible arrangement of pins to circuitry! There are Plux to Next converter boards available, which would allow a Next18 TXS decoder to be connected to a Plux22 loco - provided the loco includes enough space (especially height) for the extra board. Edited June 15 by LTSR_NSE Accuracy correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 A simple thing to do would be to find the pin out NMRA-NEM data sheets and compare the pinouts of the Plux series and the 21 pin decoders to determine which pin would be required to match which pin. Then google for Plux adapters and see what comes up. You may have to rethink your HM7K decoder plan and swap your 21 pin TXS to one that you can get a Plux adapter for - e.g. the Next 18 as suggested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dBerriff Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 The PluX standard (PluX8, PluX12, PluX16 and PluX22 plugs) has been adopted by NMRA so I expect we will be seeing more adoption and more confusion. It does have advantages as a standard, including the ability to plug different sized PluX boards into the 22 Pin PluX socket (and vice versa for all I know). But here we were just getting used to Next 18. It is a bit of a challenge if you are trying to plan manufacturing numbers and inventory holdings for a new range. And as I found it is a bit of a challenge when you just want a DCC board with 20-something pins. Muggins here of course got it wrong but Coastal DCC kindly put me straight. So sympathy from me but no easy solution as the converter boards appear largely discontinued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dBerriff Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 (edited) Hopefully HM7000 Mk 2.0 will have a PluX version. As for why the change you would have to ask Marklin. "Progress"? Sometimes it is worth the disruption, sometimes not. Marketing requires change and we end up with features we do not need. If we had started with PluX all well and good but we haven't even got the basics sorted (proper use of diesel tail lights) in some cases and here we are with more disruption. I do not mean HM7000 here - as far as I can see HM has got most things right where possible. Yes, it would have been great if PluX was in the range but one has to start somewhere. Edited June 16 by dBerriff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 I wonder why they change? It may seem like a silly question but some I can understand but others I elude me. Next18 is virtually the same size as a 6 pin if you take both parts of the connector and it gives a lot more advantages like VCC, speaker connections and function outputs. 8 pin, well they are just horrible as you have coils of wire to take up room plus a function on a flying lead and you are limited to 4 functions and no speaker wires. They are good for fitting into old locos as the PCBs are easy to solder to. Then we have the 21 pin, the only things wrong with this one is that is ever so easy to bend the pins especially if the decoder is a tight fit. So what does 22 pin give you, these must be a reason. If the Bachmann 9F has one I suppose I have never seen it as as bought the loco with sound fitted so I have never had the need to take it apart. So is it smaller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM6 Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 Admittedly I have no experience of the PluX22 but I do question what advantage, if any, it delivers. Is it more functions and are they needed on a steamer? I had been toying with buying a new 9f and am undecided between Hornby and Bachmann, after all, both are fine models and with some careful shopping they are not too different in price. But adding sound to the Bachmann will cost more as there isn't an HM7K option. When I do get round to buying, it's Hornby that will likely get the sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 1 hour ago, SteveM6 said: Admittedly I have no experience of the PluX22 but I do question what advantage, if any, it delivers. Is it more functions and are they needed on a steamer? I had been toying with buying a new 9f and am undecided between Hornby and Bachmann, after all, both are fine models and with some careful shopping they are not too different in price. But adding sound to the Bachmann will cost more as there isn't an HM7K option. When I do get round to buying, it's Hornby that will likely get the sale. Actually unless the prices have changed a lot and you don't buy the 9f in a sale, the difference in price would probably compensate for the more expensive sound option. I must admit though in my opinion the Hornby is probably better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM6 Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 It has certainly had some good reviews. Conspiracy theory time: if PluX22 offers no additional usable functionality in a steamer, has Bachmann chosen it specifically to prevent the use of Hornby decoders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted June 16 Share Posted June 16 3 hours ago, SteveM6 said: Admittedly I have no experience of the PluX22 but I do question what advantage, if any, it delivers. Is it more functions and are they needed on a steamer? The main advantage is interchangeability of various pin configs. Everything will fit its own size and all socket sizes greater, hence in theory you only need the largest socket in every loco - if you can make it fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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