What About The Bee

February 4

I do believe in covering all the details JJ!

Bee

February 4

I'm not sure I'd want staff, remaindered in February, handling fragile models in May. While I do think the staff honorable, a former employee might just be a tad angry at their former employer after 90 days without work. That has a way of upsetting family finances.

Charlie, at Chadwick Model Railways, had a different take in a recent video. While it was brief, Charlie stated that the thin margins that Hattons worked with crushed the smaller model shops, they were unable to compete. Further, he implied that Hattons closing was comeuppance for that. I literally have zero experience or history with Hattons to understand if Charlie was correct, or not. I just thought to see what the forum thought.

Bee

February 4

5 October 1831

The LMR advises that the conveyance of sheep will commence

Posted February 4 · February 4

In an effort to be sure that the Duke of Cambridge was the first member of the British Royal Family to ride on any train, I took the search as far back as 1 January 1820.

From a practical standpoint, this includes all but some very early railways and experiments. Those early railways were focused upon collieries, like Brunton's Horse to go by Steam, unlikely to have any passenger traffic.

The search included all of the early Stockton and Darlington Railway period, where the potential for a royal ride existed.

The British press acted like paparazzi to the Royal Family, reporting on their most mundane movements, lunches & etc. The press continues the behavior to this very day. This provides us with a degree of certainty, as if a member was to ride, it would be reported upon, especially so as the novelty would make it even more newsworthy.

The Duke of Cambridge remains unchallenged in being "first". It does give me quiet satisfaction that the "first" railway to provide that ride was the Liverpool and Manchester Railway, taking the honors away from the London and Birmingham Railway. Touché!

Of course, now I will have to acquire R40436 and place bunting on it, to distinguish it as the royal railway carriage of 1835. I do already have a Royal Mail carriage in R3956, while the LMR had ~4 of these Royal Mail carriages.

Bee

February 3

81F, you wrote:

I am therefore a believer in the view that you can only really judge a company by the way they resolve any issue and in my case top marks to Hornby.

When everything is going right, the only thing to be learned is price and quality. When things go wrong, that is when you see into the heart of your vendors. That is the moment of clarity.

Bee

Posted February 3 · February 3

"As far as I know"

Prophetic words. I undertook a broader survey, cast a wider net. I limited the terminal date of my search to the ride of the Duke of Sussex on the LBR.

In doing such a broad search, many non-related items are returned because it just so happens to fit the criteria. For example, I observed notice of the first pigs to travel by railway, 21 May 1831, on the LMR. Another example is the running trials of the Braithwaite and Ericsson locomotive on the LMR and why it was rejected, insufficient steam. There were many reports of accidents in which the person fell on the tracks, with obvious results. Quite the rainbow of returns.

And then, there it was. Move over, Duke of Sussex, your preeminence has been superceded. The Duke of Cambridge has taken your place.

George, Queen Victoria's cousin, rode on the Liverpool and Manchester Railway on 1 October 1835. He was 16 at the time. The article reveals he rode both ways, but alas, not what type of carriage utilized. We may infer either a 6 inside glass or 4 inside royal mail, as Walker makes the 2pm train from Liverpool a 1st class train, showing only fares for those types carriages.

I have yet to encounter any special carriage constructed for the British Royal Family by the LMR. There is the notable carriage used by the Duke of Wellington on the occasion of the LMR's opening day. I also did encounter an 1833 journey by the Duke of Orleans, arriving at Liverpool by railway. Yet this Duke, like Wellington, was not a member of the British Royal Family.

Should you wish to know more about the Duke of Cambridge:

https://www.rct.uk/collection/405100/george-duke-of-cambridge-1819-1904-0

Bee

February 2

Hi Simon

In real life, buffers do not align precisely either. The manufacturer of the stock, the railway operator, the load, the country, etc; All these contribute to misalignment and interoperability issues.

In modeling, our buffers are almost entirely cosmetic. Their alignment does not matter, because they never touch.

The 'slight' misalignment will be strictly a matter of personal taste. Unless this leads to buffer lock, or other real issues, then misalignment is strictly how you want it to look.

Bee

February 2

Paul, you wrote

In my opinion you [Alberto] should never have been subjected to any form of percieved criticism and I am sure that others will support my view.

Spot on Paul. Your assessment is perfect.

I actually enjoy correspondent videos. It helps me to see what they are doing and interested in. The locomotive outline does not have to be British or indeed even Hornby. "Let me see!" - Bee

To all those who cannot abide by this foreigner power: Turn. The. Page. No one is forcing you to read it, watch it or do anything at all. Move on to the next post, one you may be interested in.

Bee

¹to use a US term for another company's locomotive on your company's rail.

February 2

Hello Evan

I do hope it is sorted. When you have a final result, would you mind updating us? You will not be the last person with this problem. Looking out for the next modeler to come along, your update will be useful.

Bee

February 2

While I wait for the image to be approved, the Hornby Dublo Transformer No. 1 FUSE is product number BSS646.

I note there is a commercially available fuse BS646 at 1 amp. That is one heck of a coincidence.

Bee

February 2

Behold the grail.

A box of 1 amp fuses for the Hornby Dublo No. 1 Transformer.

Bee

February 1

Golly. On re-reading this for possibly the 1000th time, it occurs to me that the fuses may be on the 250V side, to "protect the Transformer".

The only way to be sure is to carefully probe the unit under power. Pull whatever fuses are in the unit out. Apply voltage. And test.

I take no responsibility for the actions of anyone in regards to this unit. Probing a unit under power is not for the unwary or uneducated. It can result in injury or death. 10 amps @250VAC can be lethal.

Personally, unless I was super determined to use this old kit, I would merely display it boldly on the layout, wired up for purpose. And never turn it on

A modern controller, discretely hidden, would drive my locomotives 'round.

Bee

February 1

LT&SR_NSE

You do a visual check on the mains chord, inspecting for insulation integrity. Check for leakage path from mains to case, mains to any exposed metals, etc. None of this requires the unit to be plugged in or power applied.

Checking for functionality is different from checking for safety. Checking for functionality means you know what the device is to do. Hand me an 80 year old device and I may balk.

Going Spare

I expect that the transformer was protected from the mains by a fuse in the house circuit. The fuses on the output legs are to protect the controller and the motor in the locomotive. Thus 1 amp @12vdc.

I thought I got super lucky as I found a catalog. And there is was. Fuses. Absolutely no specification!

There is also a specific transformer instruction sheet which I had no luck locating.

Bee

February 1

My understanding of these instructions is as follows.

The fuses are on the output side of the transformer. You could, of course, confirm this with a volt-ohm meter. The electrical plate of the transformer indicates the output at 1 amp at 12 volts. Conservatively, then, select 0.9 amp @ 12 VDC. Feeling bold? 1 amp @ 12VDC.

In other words, the fuse should match the rating or slightly less.

Bee

February 1

Hello Alberto

I came to the international forum for the first time, ever, as the moderators said your videos would be here.

I always considered your videos to be about your layouts and fun in general.

Bee

February 1

Hello 96RAF

A question regarding the 'new platform':

Will the content of this, about to become the old platform, be lost?

When Hornby transitioned to this forum, some great content went missing. It would be a shame if that error was repeated.

Bee

Posted February 1 · February 1

In the previous post, I suggested that the carriage of the Duke of Sussex might just be more opulent than the Gentlemen's Carriage in the London and Birmingham Railway illustration.

Well, it was

Carriage of Prince Augustus Frederick, Duke of Sussex, uncle to Queen Victoria, in Queen Victoria's coronation parade. With escort of Life Guards, grooms in livery, carriage drawn by six bay horses. Handcoloured aquatint engraving from Fores' Correct Representation of the State Procession on the Occasion of the August Ceremony of Her Majesty's Coronation, June 28th 1838, published by Fores, Sporting and Fine Print Repository, Piccadilly, London, 1838.

I will suggest that a carriage used on 28 June 1838 would likely be the one used in September of 1838. It is of course possible that the Duke had multiple carriages and only used this one for state occasions.

Nevertheless, it is suggestive of what was to hand on Opening Day of the LBR.

Bee

January 31

I finally took the plunge and wrote directly to Hornby Head of Development. Out of respect for the gentleman's inbox, I will not publish his contact details even if asked. I apologized for going out of channel, but asked the question about the coupling Locomotion No.1 is to have.

Here is what he had to say:

××××××××××

Firstly, I apologise for the misleading information on our website. We have passed over the information to the website team but sometimes it can take a while for the information to update on the website.

The answer to your question, locomotion will be supplied with the following:

Moulded chain type coupling – suitable for Hornby era 1 rolling stock.

A metal chain type coupling with magnet – to mate with Accurascale Chaldrons.

A metal chain with a moulded NEM plug – That can be connected to any piece of rolling stock that has an NEM pocket.

×××××××××

A couple of things I note from this

1) The Development team had already updated the Web team, and it had not been fully rolled out to the public. Am I too impatient or is Hornby not managing expectations properly? Probably both.

2) I think R30346 Locomotion No.1 will have a fine scale chain peg. This will permit the fine scale chain to attach. Additionally, a chain with magnet will have a link that slips over the peg. This is very similar to the adapter I made quite some time ago.

3) The "metal chain with moulded NEM plug". I think the plug fits into the NEM pocket on your rolling stock. Locomotion will not have a NEM pocket.

Bee

Posted January 31 · January 31

Who was the first member of the British Royal Family to ride in a Train?

If you ask the internet, it will say "Queen Adelaide, in 1840". We already know that the date is wrong. Queen Adelaide traveled by train on 15 Sept 1839. But is Her Highness the Dowager Queen the first member of the British Royal Family to travel by train?

No, no she was not! So says Bee!

The Saint James Chronicle, dated 18 September 1838 documents opening day on the London and Birmingham Railway, 17 Sept 1838. A special train left Euston Station with Mr. [Robert] Stephenson, among the railway officials and "His Royal Highness, the Duke of Sussex, suite and two carriages". 'Suite' in this context means his court, while 'carriages' refers to horse drawn carriages.

The train consisted of "16 first class carriages and mails, and four gentlemen's carriages." "Gentlemen's carriages", in this context, are the horse drawn carriages, only now they are on flatbed wagons.

Who was His Royal Highness, the Duke of Sussex?

Prince Augustus Frederick, Duke of Sussex, was the sixth son and ninth child of King George III and his queen consort, Charlotte of Mecklenburg-Strelitz. Wikipedia states that Duke of Sussex is a substantive title, one of several royal dukedoms in the Peerage of the United Kingdom. It is a hereditary title of a specific rank of nobility in the British Royal Family.

So the first member of the British Royal Family to ride by train was Prince Augustus Frederick, on 17 Sept 1838.¹

This is confirmed by The Morning Chronicle, of 19 September 1838

Sept 17. The directors of the London and Birmingham Railway ... had the honor of conveying His Royal Highness the Duke of Sussex ... His Royal Highness alighted at Rugby Station...

London and Birmingham Railway Carriages, illustrated.

This partially fanciful drawing was published by The Mirror of 22 July 1837. On the top row, the locomotive is a Rocket-class, complete with sloping cylinders. Antiquated by 1837. The tender is referred to as a "supply carriage". Next are two "first class carriages". Last is a "Gentlemen's private barouche". A barouche is a horse drawn four wheeled carriage. The opening day train had Gentlemen's carriages, but likely the Duke's was more opulent. In the middle row, the "Royal Mail, next are excursion carriages and carriages for passengers, generally". The article states that the carriages have been built by "Mr. Wright, contractor for the Royal Mails"

Finally, a sheep wagon with no doors.

Bee

¹As far as I know.

January 31

Hi Alberto

Lively electric. Do the pantagraphs come up, as shown in the photograph of the real one?

Bee

January 31

I've dropped the Science Museum a note. The text under Queen Adelaide's Saloon No.2 indicates that Queen Adelaide's first railway journey was in 1840.

Evidence I produced in this thread pushes the date to 15 October 1839, from a report in The Sun dated 16 Oct 1839, stating "Her Majesty Queen Adelaide having appointed yesterday to leave London by the London and Birmingham Railway...."

I will update the forum with any result of this communication.

Bee

January 30

Hi Ausrym

My reading suggests matching the handedness only applied to the GWR, and that the other railways were not like minded. The models you reference are BR, so I would suggest the GWR rules no longer were in play.

Have fun!

Bee

January 30

This intriguing print, per the British Museum, is the Royal Saloon that Queen Victoria rode in, in 1842. The British Museum asserts that the print was made in 1843. A novelty, note the title on the print "The Royal Railroad Carriage"

In my previous post, it was shown that the GWR had constructed a Royal Saloon carriage in 1840. The journey that Queen Victoria took in 1842 was on the GWR. Is the saloon constructed by the GWR in 1840 the same one the GWR used in 1842 for Victoria? The one in this print? I do not know but suggest it may be.

Anyway, this print offers an interesting feature. It opens!

This presents as a wonderful view of Queen Victoria, Prince Albert and her suite.

A fantastic print, showing both the inside and outside of the royal saloon carriage on the GWR. Since this is the GWR, it has little to do with Queen Adelaide's royal saloon carriage of the LBR. Different gauge, different railway, different royal personages. Even on 28 November 1843, when the LBR completes their Royal Saloon Carriage for Victoria, it is clearly not the same as the one Victoria used in 1842 on the GWR, unless they had a time machine and magically changed the gauge.

The same point will be relevant vis any royal saloon carriage for any other railway. The LNWR royal saloon constructed by Wright is not the same as the ones constructed for the GWR, nor Saloon No. 2 for the LBR by Hooper.

I originally thought that the royal carriages then were like the ones today. Used all over the network, one set. Back in the early 1840s, it appears very much to be different carriages, specific to each railway company.

Bee

January 29

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/99359-left-hand-or-right-hand-coach-what-does-this-mean/

As far as the location of first? The web is filled with this discussion. It comes down to a specific railway, at a specific station, at a particular time. The sense I got was: do what you think fits your specifics. Your mileage may vary, of course.

Bee

January 29

You are quite welcome Martyn. Happy to help.

Bee

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