Apps - too much tech

[Paul -346038]

Love the DCC idea & I have some BUT who agrees that moving to Smartphone Apps is a step too far. I can see it’s great for massive layouts & clubs BUT for those of us who like to “drive” a loco with a static control (not hand held) surely there ought to be a static Elite style controller that does this job without having to resort to Smartphone screens & Apps (which will no doubt be subject to “updates” whether one wants them or not) & the usual vaguaries of the Smartphone market. Any ideas anyone?

[P-Henny]

The new HM7000 decoders by default out of the box work with traditional physical controllers. Therefore the APP would ONLY be needed to load the sound files into the new HM7000 sound decoders. So there is nothing to stop you from sticking with knobs and buttons.

I'm in my 70s myself and have absolutely no interest in APP control, but I can see the technical and more importantly the commercial price cutting benefits of it. Hornby must attract a younger user base if they are going to survive. It is just a fact of life that the youth of today spend their waking hours with their faces stuck in front of their smart phone / tablet devices, so for them and that market in mind it is a 'no brainer'.

[SteveM6]

As has been said, the new HM7000 decoders are ‘standard’DCC decoders by default but by using the free app as a programming station the user will have access to all the sound files at no additional cost.

And by making one simple CV change, the decoder and the sound files will continue to operate as a ‘standard’ chip.

No downsides to this innovation at all.

[Fishmanoz]

Mods, could you move this to the HM7000 forum please as that is the correct area.

Then, as well as seeing the discussion in this thread, P3 might look around that forum and see all the previous discussion on this issue too.

And personally, I have no problem not having knobs to control a loco, in fact the App looks better than knobs to me. Then it would be pretty dull if we all thought the same way on this.

[LTSR_NSE]

Personally I love the physical simplicity of varying voltage to track (pure DC control). I have also found the previous DCC concepts of punching codes or twiddling dials (to select locos) unintuitive/uninviting and the initial cost of controllers decidedly unwelcoming.

To be provided with the controller free (only decoder purchase necessary) is far more welcoming. Also to be able to select locos (and change options) from on-screen menus (as has been shown in various launch videos/images) is far more intuitive/inviting.

On top of those advantages, the decoders will also function perfectly with existing physical DCC controllers (for those who already possess and want to continue using them). I really don’t see the downside?

[Mercat]

For now I will be staying with DC controllers, like others have noted I too don’t like the idea of being continuously focused on an app.

This is not to say that I don’t see a time when I might use an app as more of a central control station, where individual or group train and user profiles along with their settings are pushed out to a future cheap handheld device that was wire free. It could possibly have a couple or more small nobs/ dials and several buttons that make it simple and quick to assign a downloaded train setup to a dial, control a few points, and possibly emergency stop button.

I suppose what I’m saying is that I like to think that Hornby have a little more vision than to just put out an app and call it quits, it’s good to have a few options, only time will tell.

[ModelerXYZ]

I like pressing my buttons, turning my dials and pulling my levers. I abandoned railmaster and DCC control because it became too dificult to play with. I'll stick to my traditional DC layout with isolated sections and anolouge trains thank you.

XYZ

[ColinB]

DCC is not the issue, the issue is that the DCC system is not fully developed. There is no reason that someone could not make a box that took a bank of toggle switches used for points and convert it to a DCC signal, but its cost would probably be more than the DCC controller. Similarly there is no reason why someone could not develop a remote device that has 4 rotary controllers that could be configured to control say 4 locos on DCC, against as far as I know nobody has developed one. The reason that they appear as an app on Smart Phones is it is lot easier to implement rather than go down the road of unique hardware. Personally I find Smart Phones a pain, you set the app up and then you change your finger position and the app disappears as you have hit one of those tiny buttons on surround of the phone or the phone goes to sleep. You can get it back eventually, but it is just a pain. One of the most expensive parts of any electronic device is the display so if you can use something that has one then you save yourself a lot of expense and grief, hence why a lot of controllers use USB to talk to a PC or WiFi to talk to a phone.

[Peter Stiles]

Well, they have wireless controllers for Scalextric; in fact a lot of this tech seems to have been trialled on Scalextric before taking the plunge into Hornby.

So I wouldn't rule out a hardware "throttle", but as we've said, fitting it with a lot of switches would probably hike the cost per unit up too far; but a throttle with a couple of buttons for train selection wouldn't be out of the price bracket.

[Smallteasers]

I heard that there will also be a “traditional” wireless controller for the new Bluetooth decoders.

[Fishmanoz]

So given that Hornby under the H&M name have developed first HM6000 DC Bluetooth loco control and points and accessory control through an app, and now extending that to BLE DCC control with sound if wanted through an app, why would they now go backwards to *traditional wireless” control?

[Rallymatt]

I think like many others this is going to be a brilliant bit of kit. It drives the cost of DCC control down massively, it’s more flexible and the sound and running profiles being made available, for free and being able to to loaded to a decoder via the free app is a master stroke. I’d rather have the profile from someone who knows what they are doing. I can set up a loco easily for free via the app, control it with my ‘traditional’ DCC controller or the app. What’s not to like?

The other frequently over looked feature is that now all HM7000 decoders can receive over the air updates to software and profiles, that really extends the flexibility and usefulness of the hardware and reduces wastage.

If you fancy more tactile control for your layout, DCC concepts have ranges that can combine traditional lever switches etc with the DCC electronics

[james_nelmes]

If you want tactile you can use the HM7040 dongle to combine a Hornby DCC controller with the App. Alternatively you can set the decoders to DCC manual and use them conventionally.

[Brew Man]

That's where I'm seeing the sweet spot, using the App to install sound files and possibly CV tweaking and my Elite for general control. However, when the App does come along I might find myself pleasantly surprised and use it more generally. Suffice it to say, the HM7000 system should provide more dynamism to the already excellent DCC system.

[96RAF]

The app will really come into its own when it develops as far as RM and allows points and signal control from a track-plan and auto control by way of programs with loco detection, etc.

Until then you will have direct manual control of locos and accessories from the app main control screen, as well as CV handling and an Engine Shed for all locos, 7000 equipped and legacy (via the dongle and a suitable host DCC controller).

[Ighten 1707822464]

If they just had the common sense to add the speed notches to the volume control (just like another DCC tablet phone app I could mention) then that need some have for a tactile control is returned instantly.

[96RAF]

I think by tactile, folk mean a physical rotary speed knob. The app speed slider also has - and + buttons to either tap or press and hold.

[Smallteasers]

So given that Hornby under the H&M name have developed first HM6000 DC Bluetooth loco control and points and accessory control through an app, and now extending that to BLE DCC control with sound if wanted through an app, why would they now go backwards to *traditional wireless” control?

 

 

Because some folk like a knob to turn I guess. Having used the Z21 and iPad for some time I get why some people like to do this type of control.

[96RAF]

Such a physical controller would be another bluetooth node and easier to carry around the layout than a tablet, and as stated some folk prefer knobs and buttons to tiny phone screen controls.

MERG have a nice small controller that fits in hand with a thumb operated speed ‘wheel’. Something similar could suffice. Hornby had a wireless handcontroller in development many years ago but it never made production. It was however a fairly large handset with many controls.

[Fishmanoz]

Because some folk like a knob to turn I guess. Having used the Z21 and iPad for some time I get why some people like to do this type of control.

 

 

Turning knobs I understand. What I didn't understand was how the knobs came into wireless rather than a traditional wired DCC controller.

 

 

[Paul -346038]

Thanks everyone for your comments. Illuminating and indeed helpful.

Mercat and ModelerXYZ encapsulate my take on the latest tech. As a result I have built a small layout operating both DC and DCC with a number DCC Concepts signal box levers (excellent). This is going to be my MO for the near future.

Some of the developments envisaged and described by 96RAF are exciting but a long way down the line (forgive the pun) I suspect.

"This Is The Way"

[Goathland]

How about a specialised bluetooth keyboard and mouse combo where the keyboard is just 28 keys (1 for each function) and the mouse (which sits on the keyboard) is just a rotary control? The app just thinks that someone is just clicking keys on a regular and moving a mouse and making the appropriate response to a UI interface. This needs more work in practice as the app might have to be re-jigged slightly to accept keyboard control rather than touch control but I hope you get the idea.

[james_nelmes]

It’s really simple - you can configure the decoder really easily to work with conventional DCC (e.g. Select or Elite). The only use for the App is then updating firmware on the decoder or changing the sound file, which historically, we never had any option to do.