Hornby Dublo 3 Rail

[Range Rider]

Have just been given a train set in good condition. Am new to this… have it up & working.

Am in need of a new transformer to run 3 or 4 different circuits which I assume means a different transformer rail for each one?

Could you advise please…?

[RDS]

@Tim (Posted - 00:38 21/2/2023)

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[P-Henny]

Dublo 3 Rail requires a controller (controller is the correct name to use rather than transformer) with a relatively high current output. The modern Hornby DC Analogue controllers tend to have much lower currents to suit modern low power 2 rail locomotives. When the question of Dublo 3 Rail controllers have been raised in the past, it is commonly suggested in replies by members who run Dublo that second-hand controllers are sought on ebay. Controllers such as Duettes. But these controllers are old and caution should be applied to the electrical safety aspect of buying these off ebay.

If you prefer to buy new and want some peace of mind regarding safety issues, then I suggest looking at Gaugemaster Quad Controllers as an alternative.

[Range Rider]

Thanks for this info.

I was going to buy a Gaugemaster Q but was told it was not compatible with Meccano Hornby Dublo 3 rail…?

Was told the power output could damage the engines..?

Would appreciate further knowledge on this…

[james_nelmes]

I’ve recently serviced some 3 rail locos and in good running order they will typically draw 0.6 Amps ish. A controller cannot put too much power in - the loco can draw too much power (e.g. short circuit). Some controllers use Pulse Width Modulation where the output voltage remains constant but is pulsed to effectively control the power. Not all locos like this. You can pick up original Dublo controllers off the auction site very cheap and out of 2 I’ve bought, one works perfectly. A word of caution though. These older controllers use rubber coated mains cable and it can perish and break down, so caution is advised when plugging them in. I normally run a meter over them before plugging in.

[Range Rider]

Thanks for this James. I’m not very electronically minded so it’s all a minefield to me…

Are you saying a definite ’no’ to Gaugemaster Q..?

Tim

[Yelrow]

i am saying there is a better way. 3 rail locos draw more than others. Go to ebay, buy a H&M Duette, or Clipper. Either will be perfect. Be worth having them checked by electrician, for peace of mind, although the 15 i have, have all been ok. Duette has two outputs. These controllers are built like tanks, and will not let you down.

[ntpntpntp]

@Range Rider no idea why someone would say the Q would damage the locos. I very much doubt that, even if it were a PWM based controller - these actually work better with older motors than some of the more recent coreless types. I'm pretty sure the Q isn't PWM though. I wonder if that someone was confusing Dublo 3-rail with Marklin 3-rail AC or Trix Twin?

The main problem is the spec for the Q says it's rated at 1 amp, if that's for all four outputs combined then it'll be underpowered given these old locos draw more current as James says above. Even if it's 1 amp per output that's not a lot of headroom. That said, I've test run my old 3-rail stuff on a 1 amp Gaugemaster with no problems, but not for long periods of continuous running.

I agree with @yelrow, find a good old H&M Duette or Clipper. As long as it's in good condition electrically (get it checked) it'll be just right for the job, they were designed for these older locos. Won't cost you the £250 for the Q either!

[P-Henny]

Just to add. The GM Q manual states 1 Amp max per channel (four channels). A channel consists of one controlled track output plus one uncontrolled accessory output. Thus as well as the four track outputs there are four accessory outputs. The manual also has this line of text in it:

"This unit is suitable for use with all types of dc motors, including Portescap."

[Yelrow]

Anyone watched Bangers and Cash. On here old cars prove quality outs. H&M units, are as good today, as they were, when i first bought mine, 35 years ago. Many 3 rail users, would not use anything else. Of course, an electrical check, makes sense, but the build quality of these units, makes them a perfect match, for the also quality built, Hornby Dublo locos. The only other real choice, other than Gaugemaster, is Morley, another, top quality build, but for either you are approaching 200 pounds. You really need to try these, before you dismiss them on grounds of age. No one is saying the locos are too old. , and they are a similar age.

[81F]

This is very useful as I have some 3 rail stock I would like to run, UI also have a Duette from my original layout somewhere. However I have lost the nuts that secure the wires on the terminals - Can anyone tell me what thread these are?

[LTSR_NSE]

@81F please see page 5 of the thread below (where the size & availability of the nuts was discussed).

https://uk.hornby.com/community/forum/power-to-3-rail-system-326473?ccm_paging_p=5&ccm_order_by=&ccm_order_by_direction=

[sagaguy]

A lot of Hornby Dublo 3 rail users that i know, including me,use Trax handheld controllers which supply 1 1/2 amps rather than Gaugemaster which only supply 1 amp.Duettes etc were ok in their day but are getting a bit long in the tooth now.

Ray.

[Yelrow]

Sagaguy, hi, how many Duettes do you own.

[Yelrow]

81f , hi, glad to have been of use. I have 20 ,3 rail locos, and a mix of 9, Duettes and Clippers. They are a match made in heaven. I am getting a tad tired of being told controllers are old. They are newer than some of my 3 rail locos.

[bill7437]

Might be worth you looking at the website of Handem Electronics who

sell H & M Hammant and Morgan controllers fully tested for electrical safety.

I have used them for repairs to H & M controllers and would recommend.

As other contributors have said these units are built like battleships and

would provide the output required for Dublo 3 Rail.

[Rana Temporia]

I would never get rid of my H&M controllers but +1 on testing, I bought one once that had mains voltage coming down the track feed. Not good. I also suspect that some of the innards of the early ones contain asbestos so if you don’t know what you are doing don’t poke around inside.

I have no real problem with my Tri-ang controllers, they still work fine and seem to be able to power just about anything.

I have built some PWM controllers from the modules available on eBay and the BMR printed boxes. Used with a 2A power supply they are far superior to standard controllers with all my old stock. I haven’t tried with 3 Rail but for 2 rail Tri-ang, Trix, Playcraft, Hornby, Hornby ACHO and Wrenn the slow running and starting of the old power-hungry motors is vastly improved. I think the modules are rated up to 2.5A and 24v. They also have a thermal safety cut out built in, not bad for around £2.50.

I have not used them for prolonged running as my layout is only in the very early stages so can’t comment on that but there doesn’t appear to be the excessive noise from the motors that some people have reported, certainly nothing like running an X04 on half wave using a Clipper.

[Yelrow]

Bill, thanks for the tip about Handem, could well use, should any of mine fail. Twas only the very early ones, i am told, had asbestos. They are so well sealed, that you would need a safe breaker, to open one. The half wave, facility on both, is handy.

[ntpntpntp]

@Yelrow I had to drill out the rivets on my H&M boxes when I replaced the internal resistance mats with Gaugemaster panel controllers some years ago. This was because I use them as spares/backups for my N gauge exhibition layout and needed finer control. Re-rivetted the lids afterward of course :)

[Yelrow]

Yup, built like tanks. You can guess i am a fan.

[Range Rider]

Thank you to all above for really good advice….

Am about to order a Duette from Handem as recommended. Tim

[Yelrow]

Range Rider. Hi, you will not be disappointed.

[Range Rider]

Another question… I have a Clipper & Duette arriving this week. When I attach 2/3 Controllers to a circuit, is it the points direction that activates one controller over the other?

[Yelrow]

Range Rider, hi, i am confused. your duette and clipper will run 3 seperate tracks, in no way joined together. If they are all joined up with points, you will only need one controlled circuit, eg, the clipper, would be enough. The throw of the points cuts the supply to a siding, for example. You cannot power them all, on at the same time. A track plan , would help. I am assuming, your track is all 3 rail tin plate. What points do you have.

[Yelrow]

I run about 13 different circuits, in various gauges from 3 rail, to Z gauge. Because the are all self contained, each one has its own controller. If my 3 rail circuits, of which, i have 3, were linked with points, then a single clipper, would suffice. Are your points manual or electric. If you wanted, for example 2/3 connected sidings to shunt locos on, then you could isolate them from main track, and use a second controller for that, but that may be , in the future.