Rallymatt Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 Peter of ‘TT:120 Ramble’ had Martyn and Karl of Hornby to mainly discuss things TT:120 but a snippet that’s of interest across the whole hobby is that a substantially smaller Power Bank is in development by Hornby. 40% smaller in physical size was a rough estimation by Karl and although no release dates were given, this could be why the existing version is not being made available before the end of the year. While I am of view many people use PBs to mask other faults that should really be addressed first, they do absolutely have their use and a big purpose is to help BT decoders stay connected to the BT Network as well as help short wheel base locos, and older stock with limited pick ups, negotiate point work. Link to the whole video 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George-351466 Posted May 27 Share Posted May 27 I spoke to George at the recent Model World Live at the NEC and he said that they were seeking to reduce the size of their current power bank unit, but that component supplies were still a problem causing delays. Having said that, Rails are now selling the AE Model stay alive with HM700 plug-in compatibility. I’ve bought a pack of 3: they are cheaper than Hornby’s, but no smaller - if anything a little fatter. Jenny Kirk does a useful you tube comparison. The Hornby ones last a few seconds longer, but there’s little in it. I’ve also tried the Laisdcc ones. They come in different sizes and capacities which is useful, but have to be soldered to the chip - not for the faint hearted or those without steady hands. It’s odd though that rivals are clearly sourcing components whilst Hornby seemingly struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted Tuesday at 06:57 Share Posted Tuesday at 06:57 12 hours ago, George-351466 said: I spoke to George at the recent Model World Live at the NEC and he said that they were seeking to reduce the size of their current power bank unit, but that component supplies were still a problem causing delays. Having said that, Rails are now selling the AE Model stay alive with HM700 plug-in compatibility. I’ve bought a pack of 3: they are cheaper than Hornby’s, but no smaller - if anything a little fatter. Jenny Kirk does a useful you tube comparison. The Hornby ones last a few seconds longer, but there’s little in it. I’ve also tried the Laisdcc ones. They come in different sizes and capacities which is useful, but have to be soldered to the chip - not for the faint hearted or those without steady hands. It’s odd though that rivals are clearly sourcing components whilst Hornby seemingly struggle. Different components in the other brands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted Tuesday at 09:45 Share Posted Tuesday at 09:45 (edited) @George-351466 I bought a couple of the AE ones and find them quite a bit slimmer than the Hornby PBs. I haven't fitted one yet as the plugs, though a similar size overall don't appear to have the chamfer that the Hornby ones have. I believe Bulleid Boy fitted one so maybe he could comment. Edited Tuesday at 10:14 by RB51 Misspelt word - stopped by profanity filter. Now corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM6 Posted Tuesday at 11:03 Share Posted Tuesday at 11:03 I'll get in before BB. The AE stayalive is, as you say, slimmer but does have a slightly larger footprint. I found that in my Hornby B12, it fits nicely in the original space for the 28mm speaker under the ballast weight leaving the top clear for the speaker and decoder. Running time was down, compared to the current Hornby PB, by about 25% but greater than the smallest Lais stayalive (which requires soldering to the decoder). The AE plug is a direct fit with no issues encountered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted Tuesday at 12:04 Share Posted Tuesday at 12:04 (edited) OK thanks, Steve. I'll give one a try soon when Hornby re-stocks 8 pin decoders. Looking at the plug on the AE, it looks like it would fit either way round. Is that the case? Edited Tuesday at 12:06 by Brew Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted Tuesday at 12:08 Share Posted Tuesday at 12:08 I took my LaisDCC shrink wrap off, I was trying to fit it into a smaller space, but I did get to study the components and circuit. Surprisingly the LaisDCC has four capacitors in series so I assume these are the devices that Hornby are having so much difficulty getting. The rest was a couple of transitors (one being used as a diode) a zenor and a resistor. The running time is dependant on the motor impedance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM6 Posted Tuesday at 13:29 Share Posted Tuesday at 13:29 1 hour ago, Brew Man said: OK thanks, Steve. I'll give one a try soon when Hornby re-stocks 8 pin decoders. Looking at the plug on the AE, it looks like it would fit either way round. Is that the case? I doubt it, but then I have seen someone manage to fit the speaker to the PB socket or vice versa. It released the magic smoke of doom.🥴 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted Tuesday at 13:34 Share Posted Tuesday at 13:34 Yes, been there once or twice 😱🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted Tuesday at 13:58 Share Posted Tuesday at 13:58 1 hour ago, Brew Man said: OK thanks, Steve. I'll give one a try soon when Hornby re-stocks 8 pin decoders. Looking at the plug on the AE, it looks like it would fit either way round. Is that the case? Polarity has to be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted Tuesday at 14:21 Share Posted Tuesday at 14:21 I know, that why I was asking the question. Looking at the end profile of the plug it looks square rather than chamfered. However, it should only work one way round due to the pins having to connect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted Tuesday at 14:33 Share Posted Tuesday at 14:33 Speaker plug shown but PB plug is the same except 3 pin (2-wire). It should not be possible to plug them in inverted due to the keyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted Tuesday at 21:19 Share Posted Tuesday at 21:19 I'm late to the party - have been out all day. The AE Power Bank/Stay alive went into a Schools Class without any problems. I have watched the Jenny Kirk comparison video, which I thought was a fair test. Personally, I think the Hornby version runs for several seconds longer than the competition. I bought three AE versions, but have only fitted one, and still have a couple of the Hornby version awaiting fitment. I also have six on pre-order with Hornby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pendragon Sailing Posted Wednesday at 13:52 Share Posted Wednesday at 13:52 Are we absolutely sure that these AE power banks are fully compatible with the HM7k decoders? I’d hate that we all fit some and find that they prove otherwise 😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dBerriff Posted Wednesday at 15:59 Share Posted Wednesday at 15:59 The DCC Concepts website listing states that they are. I will order on that basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveM6 Posted Wednesday at 16:00 Share Posted Wednesday at 16:00 Why would we think they weren't if they are advertised as compatible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishmanoz Posted Wednesday at 16:18 Share Posted Wednesday at 16:18 Not only advertised but fitted by Bb and working (4 posts above). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted Wednesday at 18:41 Share Posted Wednesday at 18:41 (edited) Trouble is Hornby made their Powerpack to be something special, we now know it isn't. It is equivalent to the LaisDCC and AE ones. The special bit as far as I can gather is the use of a zener and transistor in the charging circuit. Other ones you get don't contain these bits of circuitry and as such are a pain when trying to read back CV on DCC programming mode. I don't know how many capacitors AE use, but LaisDCC use 4. I assume because the basic capacitor is rated at 2.7 volts LaisDCC have probably used 4 to be be sure they are within the allowed voltage range but having 4 in series versus 3 for the Powerpack means the storage capacity is less. The advantage the Powerpack pack has over the other two is it is easy to plug in and out. The LaisDCC is a solder job and the AE according to the YouTube review doesn't have shoulders on the connector so is a pain to get out once in the socket. Edited Thursday at 06:28 by RB51 Unsubstantiated comment struck out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted Wednesday at 18:48 Share Posted Wednesday at 18:48 How do you @ColinB have any notion of Hornby’s business decisions when you say they made their power banks to be special? R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted Wednesday at 19:30 Share Posted Wednesday at 19:30 (edited) All Hornby said was that the Power Bank incorporated tech which allowed the Decoder to control/delay charging. (Colin suggests he has identified these components - but that has neither been confirmed or rejected by Hornby.) Additionally Hornby advised using their Power Bank & stated they wouldn’t/couldn’t guarantee 3rd party stay-alive compatibility - which is standard practice. Nowhere have they suggested anything was special/magic/fairy dust & nowhere have they stated it was impossible for other manufacturers to develop alternatives! Edited Wednesday at 19:33 by LTSR_NSE Additional clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96RAF Posted Wednesday at 19:51 Share Posted Wednesday at 19:51 As I have said before and have to keep saying because obviously no one is listening, the Hornby PB has a transistor that is switched by the decoder to enable the charging after a set delay. This delay is to preclude any programming problems. Other make stay-alive with charging circuitry will not charge until the decoder signals their circuitry if so designed. The new Hornby design will be made smaller probably by using less capacitors which will likely use step-up tech to get the output voltage. 'Tis not rocket science being employed here, just basic electronics to meet a need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted Wednesday at 19:54 Share Posted Wednesday at 19:54 2 minutes ago, LTSR_NSE said: All Hornby said was that the Power Bank incorporated tech which allowed the Decoder to control/delay charging. (Colin suggests he has identified these components - but that has neither been confirmed or rejected by Hornby.) Additionally Hornby advised using their Power Bank & stated they wouldn’t/couldn’t guarantee 3rd party compatibility - which is standard practice. Nowhere have they suggested anything was special/magic/fairy dust & nowhere have they stated it was impossible for other manufacturers to develop alternatives! Certain people have suggested they were special but that doesn't matter anymore. I did actually think they would use a port on the micro to control the charging which I suspect Zimo do. I am not even sure that the LaisDCC design doesn't precede the Hornby one. The thing is, Hornby have lost a golden opportunity, you can't get them but you can get the AE and the LaisDCC ones. Now every one knows the others work and are cheaper, they will have lost sales. As to Hornby confirming my thoughts I doubt they can, seeing I have not even contacted them and I am definitely not going to. I suspect they do the same as I used to do when I was an analog design engineer, go get a basic design from a book (in my day National Semiconductors) and adapt it to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted Wednesday at 20:03 Share Posted Wednesday at 20:03 3 minutes ago, 96RAF said: As I have said before and have to keep saying because obviously no one is listening, the Hornby PB has a transistor that is switched by the decoder to enable the charging after a set delay. This delay is to preclude any programming problems. Other make stay-alive with charging circuitry will not charge until the decoder signals their circuitry if so designed. The new Hornby design will be made smaller probably by using less capacitors which will likely use step-up tech to get the output voltage. 'Tis not rocket science being employed here, just basic electronics to meet a need. You sure about that 96RAF, the device has two connections, to control it from the decoder you would need three ( power out, power return and control). Now the Train O Matic one does. Charging I suspect, is controlled not by the decoder but by the zener diode and transistor on the Powerbank. Either way it doesn't matter, it is just I get fed up with people trying to over complicate things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted Wednesday at 20:32 Author Share Posted Wednesday at 20:32 New much smaller powerbank coming from Hornby. 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted Wednesday at 20:59 Share Posted Wednesday at 20:59 59 minutes ago, ColinB said: Certain people have suggested they were special but that doesn't matter anymore I’m sorry @ColinB, but you cannot come on here and say something as obscure as “someone suggested they were special” and rewind your earlier comment about “we now know they were not”. If you do not fact check yourself and refrain from spurious comments all your posts will be held for moderation before entering the forum. R- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now