ColinB Posted August 12 Author Share Posted August 12 53 minutes ago, What About The Bee said: Which is why discussions of price invariably are colored by the perception of value to an individual and their station in life. It is clear that, for many individuals, the prices are too high to fit within their budget. For others, the quality is more important. Perception. Is Hornby profitable? If not, then they must adjust prices to account for this. Hornby is not a charitable institution. It is a profit motivated business. If a price rise inhibits you from purchasing, you have my sympathies, but the world of Hornby does not exist to serve you personally, nor me for that matter. Absolutely. Inflation is a fact of life. And by the way, that will not stop me from typing my little heart out. See you in Sept, 2025. 😁 Bee Actually I can afford it but with everything I buy I decided whether it is worth what I am paying. As I keep saying if you guys are happy with the price then no issues. As to Hornby not being a charitable organisation I suspect we all know that, I don't even know why you mentioned it, least of all me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB51 Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 I’m not sure anything said was aimed at anyone in particular. Please keep comments impersonal. R- 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 47 minutes ago, ColinB said: .... whether it is worth what I am paying.... Therein is the crux of the matter. 'Tis not the price, it is the perception of value to the buyer. The buyer decides if there is value and then either pays the price [or not]. Hornby offers an item at a price. It is up to us, the customers, to decide if that price offers value. Inflation is ever present. The current offerings, at their price points, apparently are insufficient to make Hornby profitable. Hornby needs to turn a profit. QED: prices will rise. Bee PS My apologies if I somehow managed to offend you Colin. That was never my intent. I was attempting to illustrate a point and may have meandered over a line that I did not see at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted August 12 Author Share Posted August 12 24 minutes ago, What About The Bee said: Therein is the crux of the matter. 'Tis not the price, it is the perception of value to the buyer. The buyer decides if there is value and then either pays the price [or not]. Hornby offers an item at a price. It is up to us, the customers, to decide if that price offers value. Inflation is ever present. The current offerings, at their price points, apparently are insufficient to make Hornby profitable. Hornby needs to turn a profit. QED: prices will rise. Bee PS My apologies if I somehow managed to offend you Colin. That was never my intent. I was attempting to illustrate a point and may have meandered over a line that I did not see at the time. You obviously didn't read my earlier post about the Dapol A4, otherwise you wouldn't have said such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModelerXYZ Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 Prices rise. The Uk government forces wages up. This then decreases the real value of the english pound. What I can buy on my wages is the same or less than I could before my last pay rise, though the absolute value of a thing has gone up. I remember the price of a Mars bar was 65p. Now depending on which shop I go to, it is between 99p and £1.50 I still like eating mars bars, but I can no longer afford to eat so many as I would if they were still 65p. To raise the wages of the staff means that the shop needs to put up prices. Whenever they are forced to put up wages, they then put up prices so that they can still make a profit. The end consumer gets no benefit. It is the same for all items, including model trains. Only an econemist will tell you different. Wages up= Prices up = value of currency down. XYZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 When I first studied economics the measure of a Mars bar was actually introduced as a genuine ‘currency’ to assess the real value of things. It’s all gone a bit south as Mars bars are smaller and we now have a sugar tax…. The Bank of England strikes back! 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 1 hour ago, ModelerXYZ said: I remember the price of a Mars bar was 65p. They were 27p when I was still at school (mid-late ‘90s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritInVanCA Posted August 14 Share Posted August 14 “And if you tell kids nowadays that they won’t believe you!” 😂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Fred Posted August 14 Share Posted August 14 8 hours ago, ModelerXYZ said: Prices rise. The Uk government forces wages up. This then decreases the real value of the english pound. What I can buy on my wages is the same or less than I could before my last pay rise, though the absolute value of a thing has gone up. I remember the price of a Mars bar was 65p. Now depending on which shop I go to, it is between 99p and £1.50 I still like eating mars bars, but I can no longer afford to eat so many as I would if they were still 65p. To raise the wages of the staff means that the shop needs to put up prices. Whenever they are forced to put up wages, they then put up prices so that they can still make a profit. The end consumer gets no benefit. It is the same for all items, including model trains. Only an econemist will tell you different. Wages up= Prices up = value of currency down. XYZ Just think how much healthier you will be by cutting back on the sugar hits (spoken by a person now with type 2 diabetes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
What About The Bee Posted August 14 Share Posted August 14 Is it still a rumor if Hornby says it? An Important Message for Our Loyal Customers As one of our valued customers, we wanted you to be one of the first to know that we are adjusting our prices from 1st September 2024. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterM67 Posted August 14 Share Posted August 14 Yes, I was taken aback by the comment in the email claiming no major price rise since January 2022. As someone buying TT:120 I must have imagined the big across the range price rise imposed in June 2023! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted August 14 Author Share Posted August 14 4 minutes ago, PeterM67 said: Yes, I was taken aback by the comment in the email claiming no major price rise since January 2022. As someone buying TT:120 I must have imagined the big across the range price rise imposed in June 2023! It is all in the words, "major". There have been a lot on little incremental price rises. The OO black five with steam has gone up by about 10% since it was first announced. The B17 just being released now, has had the same sort of increase. Very subtle the way it has happened an odd £10 here and there. I know because the wonderful website shows the preordered price. Unfortunately with TT120 you are a bit of a prisoner, with OO many of the locos are over 30 years old so you can buy a pre used one that is virtually the same, but with TT120 there are not so many options. TT120 is probably going to take the biggest hit because there is no competition, whereas in OO say a class 60 is being undercut in price by two competitors, they are having trouble shifting them now, with 10% on the price, you probably know the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterM67 Posted August 14 Share Posted August 14 It's definitely subtle. With TT;120 I either have everything I want from the current range or it is on pre-order so it's a non price rise for me. However they get you with the future models which obviously get released with the new higher pricing but then there is no old price to compare these things against unless it's something that already exists with a different livery! It's the new entrants I feel sorry for, they won't get the head start available to the early adopters. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The son of Triangman Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 Price increases had to come, Hornby have been commendably restrained in not raising prices earlier. Material, Labour, and other business costs have risen sharply over the 18 months. It's a business and it has to make money at the end of the day, plus it has to get back into the black so it was bound to happen sooner than later. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atom3624 Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 A Mars bar was around 5p (equivalent) when I started Secondary School !! Al. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 I remember a Mars bar being 7p (early 70’s) and a Milky Way being 5p and two toffee logs for a penny, 2xBlack Jacks for 1/2p. I found remembering times tables a lot harder and I did them much more than eating sweets! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 On 09/08/2024 at 20:40, Simmo009 said: If you want what only Hornby are making, order it direct on day one and lock the price in. If the Black 5 with Smoke is affected by this, it will be the third increase since it was announced. £250 to £270 to £294 currently. £325 after increase? I thought the initial price was too low anyway, hence I pressed that buy button as soon as I could. I think the Black 5 with steam was lower than you suggest? I ordered mine within minutes of it being announced and the price was £224.99 - so the current price, as per the Hornby Shop is £292.29 - so that's a 30% increase since announcement. So the moral here is order on announcement - you can always cancel it🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 (edited) I think we just have to accept that everything is increasing in price - and it is. Many items, such as food and drink, may only be a few pence so you just accept it - I have a glass of orange juice with my breakfast every morning - the carton of juice has increased by 10% over the last month - why? Any Hornby item it expensive compared with food, so any increase is going to be measured in pounds - and we all get concerned about it. As I said, we just have to accept this is the way it's going - you don't have to buy/order it. Edited August 16 by Bulleidboy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted August 16 Author Share Posted August 16 55 minutes ago, Bulleidboy said: I think the Black 5 with steam was lower than you suggest? I ordered mine within minutes of it being announced and the price was £224.99 - so the current price, as per the Hornby Shop is £292.29 - so that's a 30% increase since announcement. So the moral here is order on announcement - you can always cancel it🤔 There lies one of the issues Hornby has. The Black 5 as with B17 has taken 2 years to get to market, the majority of orders will be preorders with Hornby so it will have lost all that money. Now if they only took orders within release day minus 90 days, they would have made more money. Announcing a product taking orders thus fixing the price, then waiting two years before you collect the money is a formula for failure especially when there are so many factors out of your control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidboy Posted August 16 Share Posted August 16 I'm sure Bachmann must have the same problems - some have been waiting for years for an "announced" model to arrive - and are still waiting. We all know, it has been mentioned on here and in other sources, that it takes two to three years from inception to shop shelf - so nothing new or out of the ordinary. A number of other manufacturers who announce a new model and it is available a few months later can only be keeping the announcement under wraps until there ready, and also only have a small range of models. Everyone keep on about Accurascale and how wonderful they are, and they probably are, but they only have half a dozen models in their current line-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted August 16 Author Share Posted August 16 6 minutes ago, Bulleidboy said: I'm sure Bachmann must have the same problems - some have been waiting for years for an "announced" model to arrive - and are still waiting. We all know, it has been mentioned on here and in other sources, that it takes two to three years from inception to shop shelf - so nothing new or out of the ordinary. A number of other manufacturers who announce a new model and it is available a few months later can only be keeping the announcement under wraps until there ready, and also only have a small range of models. Everyone keep on about Accurascale and how wonderful they are, and they probably are, but they only have half a dozen models in their current line-up. Yes, but you don't order direct from Bachmann, well as far as I know you don't. I had a class 25 diesel on order and was informed of its new price via the retailer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yelrow Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 posters are very unhappy on other forums. made worse as they appear to be blaming lauch of new TT20, which of course, existing members had little interest in. These new TT buyers will have to spend a devil of a lot to keep them afloat, methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted August 17 Author Share Posted August 17 (edited) 4 hours ago, Yelrow said: posters are very unhappy on other forums. made worse as they appear to be blaming lauch of new TT20, which of course, existing members had little interest in. These new TT buyers will have to spend a devil of a lot to keep them afloat, methinks. To be quite honest I think they have been extremely let down. They were promised this reasonably priced system, it is now rapidly approaching the prices of OO. Then you have that Hornby has blown all its money so there be limited investment in it in the future by Hornby, so half the models won't appear. Hornby made a mistake by freezing out other manufacturers like Heljan, but then that is Hornby doing its usual protectionism. Their management would do well to read the story of how the Shipping Container came about. Nobody talks about HM7000, by all accounts there is a rather large team working on that as well. It is also looking like the non sound versions of the decoders are not going to materialise. This means that you can't have bluetooth control unless you fit all your locos with sound. (The previous sentence now crossed out, is incorrect. The Hornby Dongle HM7040, allows Bluetooth control of existing Decoders) Would have done better to upgrade their existing products. Edited August 17 by RDS Incorrect and misleading Information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 Pretty much everything you have said Colin is inaccurate. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brew Man Posted August 17 Share Posted August 17 You can have Bluetooth control via the dongle of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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