Layout ideas for those with no space for a permanent oval

[Generic Hornby Username]

1 hour ago, Moccasin said:

Thanks chaps. That’s really helpful!

I’d recommend this video by @Peachy  for a rundown on 6010. I learned about it from reading materials, but this tells you everything you need totally straightforward. 
 

 

[96RAF]

Ref the video . . .

The HM6010 is described on the box as being for use on DC layouts, this is because the module was introduced as part of the HM | DC 6000 system app, which does have that limit of 3 x 6010 modules. There is no limit on number when the module is used with the HM | DCC 7000 system app.

What is not totally clear in the video, but which has been published time and again on the forums, is the difference in use of DC and DCC voltage as a module power supply.

You can as shown in the video use a PSU and plug into the module jack socket or you can do as shown in the video use DC from the rails into the Track A-B terminals. This allows you to use the module in DC mode with basic functionality seen in the app.

If however you feed DCC voltage into the Track A-B terminals the module switches to DCC mode and can only be used under DCC control, not bluetooth app control. The module will then have the same advanced modes functionality as the R8247 v2.0 accessory decoder. At present the app does not have a user interface for that advanced functionality, but it is being developed to allow control of R8247 and HM6010 in advanced modes thru' the dongle.

The power source acts as a DCC - Bluetooth switch, hence you must apply the correct power type associated with how you want to control your accessories - DCC controller or app.

[Fishmanoz]

This topic needs a title change to reflect the detailed coverage of app-based point control. 

[LTSR_NSE]

Does the new forum have better Mod options for splitting/separating threads?

If so perhaps the HM7k point discussion could be separated into its own thread?

[Rallymatt]

I think it’s better to keep this thread as it was and perhaps start a new one relating to the intricacies of point control is a stand alone thread. There are always going to be crossovers within threads, building a model railway involves lots of elements. 

[Moccasin]

Thanks all. I did consider starting a new thread for the points query but felt this was a question that belonged in this thread for those considering starting a small layout. The query is as much about future proofing a layout as its being planned as it is about the intricacies of control.

Based on the answers here I now know I’ll need to take more care in planning locations of point toes in particular so as not to locate them too close to the frame cross braces below, so that motors can be allowed for if not installed immediately. 

 

Edited February 21 by Moccasin

[Postman On The Rails]

@Moccasin i had that issue with pico twistlocks have two spare now one of my lessons learnt on my blog 

[Moccasin]

I struggled to get to sleep last night and was mentally working out what I could fit in and constraints on point location will likely limit train length further. I'm loathe to cancel my pre-order for the HST and 4 Mk3 carriages, but the train will be over 1m in length (2 x 155mm + 4 x 189mm) which will be hard to accommodate. Either I just run that occasionally on the dining table or given up on it entirely. Even a 3 coach train is probably too much and the way the baseboard modules work probably precludes me adding extra platform/fiddle yard length, given that the overall length required would likely be 6 x 555mm baseboard modules.

[D9020 Nimbus]

There is a real-life instance of an HST with just two coaches between the power cars due to the unavailability of a class 158. Now, the last time I checked the class 158 was unavailable (in TT120)…

If you're thinking about a small layout, it might be worth considering using Tillig points rather than Hornby (or Peco) as they're quite a bit shorter. Using such points it's possible to fit a BLT into about 1250mm.

It might also be worth looking at Micro Model Dispatch. This magazine is free, and approximately quarterly. It’s edited and produced in PDF form by Ian Holmes. Issues are advertised on RMWeb, and if you "subscribe" you get to be able to download them a week in advance. In particular issue 10 last year covered the use of various IKEA items as possible baseboards.

Many years ago, in one of the last issues of MRC, Martin Goodall fitted a 4mm scale (P4!) BLT into 4ft — about 1220mm; it was actually on a 6ft board with integrated fiddle yard (Crichel Down). It was, however, a light railway prototype.

There are also track planning books. None of them, as yet,  cover TT120, but the plans can serve as inspiration. Most of Cyril Freezer's plans — with the honourable exception of Minories — are rather dated nowadays, but I'd recommend books by Iain Rice, Paul Lunn and, more recently, James Hilton.

[Moccasin]

22 minutes ago, D9020 Nimbus said:

There is a real-life instance of an HST with just two coaches between the power cars due to the unavailability of a class 158. Now, the last time I checked the class 158 was unavailable (in TT120)…

If you're thinking about a small layout, it might be worth considering using Tillig points rather than Hornby (or Peco) as they're quite a bit shorter. Using such points it's possible to fit a BLT into about 1250mm.

It might also be worth looking at Micro Model Dispatch. This magazine is free, and approximately quarterly. It’s edited and produced in PDF form by Ian Holmes. Issues are advertised on RMWeb, and if you "subscribe" you get to be able to download them a week in advance. In particular issue 10 last year covered the use of various IKEA items as possible baseboards.

Many years ago, in one of the last issues of MRC, Martin Goodall fitted a 4mm scale (P4!) BLT into 4ft — about 1220mm; it was actually on a 6ft board with integrated fiddle yard (Crichel Down). It was, however, a light railway prototype.

There are also track planning books. None of them, as yet,  cover TT120, but the plans can serve as inspiration. Most of Cyril Freezer's plans — with the honourable exception of Minories — are rather dated nowadays, but I'd recommend books by Iain Rice, Paul Lunn and, more recently, James Hilton.

Thanks, all very useful points.

While I know there’ve been short formed HSTs (even single power cars and power cars back to back), I feel like 3 coaches is probably the absolute minimum, but I might have to make compromises.

I have considered (and haven’t ruled out) the Tillig scissors crossover or, alternatively, modelling as a former double track alignment that’s been singled in the 1980s - which is very prototypical! Even two platforms then only require a single crossover. Penistone station (a shadow of its former self) has that arrangement, with the former Huddersfield-bound track forming a siding/ headshunt if I recall correctly.

I did see the idea of using an IKEA shelf as a baseboard. They’re very light but the cardboard interior apparently doesn’t work so well and is weaker once it’s been compromised by drilling etc. It is an option though and is easily stored in a corner, albeit without much scenery. There’s one which is 1900mm x260mm

i do have some track books including a couple of the classics and will check out the other ones you mention.  

[MikeMart]

Very good point regarding Tillig points! The only thing worth remembering is (as I learned) that their points are without spring mounted into the mechanism, so they need latching point motors. Otherwise they fit perfectly with track system from Hornby!

[mr2002]

18 hours ago, Moccasin said:

I did see the idea of using an IKEA shelf as a baseboard.

Mosslanda picture shelf:

Edited February 24 by mr2002

[Moccasin]

I've been playing around with the Rail Modeller Express software on my Mac and have come up with this (very constrained) end-to-end modern era terminus. This fits on two Scale Model Scenery "baseboard in a box" modular units (they can be stored in a Really Useful Box). There's the potential to add two half modules to extend the platforms and hidden sidings by about three standard straight lengths, but I'm not sure that would work as the resulting 3.3m long board would overhang my table too much. The sidings shown bottom right are intended for carriage/loco stabling. Not very prototypical, but then compromises abound on this layout concept. Reversing the crossover nearest the terminus end was an option I considered, but would further limit train length.

By my calculation, three Mk2s or Mk1s could be safely accommodated within the run round loop (the Mk1s still seem to have incorrect length shown in the online shop tech specs as they're listed as being longer than both the Mk2s and Mk3s). The platforms could accommodate a 3 coach HST but the hidden fiddle sidings can only accommodate power cars and 2 Mk3 coaches. Rather than run around loco hauled trains, I'd more likely operate with a new locomotive taking the train out to release the incoming loco for the next train. The black shows a notional road bridge and retaining wall arrangement as a scenic break.

The decision to be made now is whether this is worthwhile pursuing, or whether I should work out a way of creating an easily-stored oval layout for modern image stock to enjoy some freedom, or just carry on with setting up on the table when I have an opportunity and develop a simpler end to end steam era country terminus layout with the hopefully-soon-to-be-announced tank locomotive. 

[taunmarc88]

@Moccasin I actually really like this. I was knocking about on Minehead’s terminus station platform this morning as I’m local and it was lovely to see how a long thin area works.. it’s obviously how real railways look. I always dislike my loops as it just doesn’t seem realistic unless you have loads of space to create tunnels, baffles etc. They had all the carriages in the platforms being cleaned up for the new season and it made me think how ideal a layout like your proposal would be for a heritage railway. At Minehead they had random wagons attached to the end of trains, presumably whilst they perform manoeuvres or train up new volunteers on the railway. So you could really go to town as a display piece with the bonus of having trains go off scene to the wider world. 

[Moccasin]

Thanks @taunmarc88 - it sounds like your jaunt to Minehead was a helpful inspiration! I had some of my own inspiration. While on my walk this afternoon, I realised that I could add one additional module to the end to end layout and it makes a decent amount of difference:

It only adds about 3 straights but makes it feel less tight and allows a hidden siding behind the station for extra storage. I got to the 50 track piece limit, but you get the idea.

If I went for a larger layout, I've played around with the arrangement below, with a loop and terminus on an approx 6ft x 3ft board (or two 3ft x 3ft sections). The premise would be that the loop on the left is an avoiding line/freight line with terminus platforms on the two diagonal lines. Again, I reached the limit of the free version, but could have some sidings to the right of the station, where the stub is. Again, a couple more feet in length would allow a less constrained layout. Tillig track in the hidden section would allow a more efficient fiddle yard and might be better in the station throat too.

[Rallymatt]

Peter, this might be a completely daft idea of mine, but could you have a pulley system to lift a layout up to ceiling and out of the way (including feline re modellers) ? It was an idea often quoted in the Hornby brouchures of the 70’s and 80’s but I never saw it being tried. With good covering under the baseboard etc it could be quite cool (make a ceiling look sculptured) It could open up unused space for storage and give the space for the layout you want 😁

Edited March 9 by Rallymatt
Restricted word

[StuLarge]

57 minutes ago, Rallymatt said:

 a pulley system to lift a layout up to ceiling and out of the way (including feline re modellers) ? It was an idea often quoted in the Hornby brouchures of the 70’s and 80’s 😁

I similarly remember this along with fold up against the wall with things like a pin board on the otherside

[Moccasin]

Hi @Rallymatt it’s not an option sadly as there’s none of the rooms with a space big enough and ceilings are quite low, being a modern house. When I was a child, we folded up the layout against a wall and that worked quite well. My current house doesn’t have a suitable wall.

I actually looked at a house in Seaton Deleval a few years ago which had a perfect loft space. Probably a good thing I didn’t buy it though as I’d have likely been ruined by the mortgage rate increases.

I’ve laid stuff out this evening on the table but done no operating as I’m too tired and don’t want to have to pack it all away again. Mistakes/accidents happen when I’m tired as well. 

[Moccasin]

6 minutes ago, StuLarge said:

I similarly remember this along with fold up against the wall with things like a pin board on the otherside

See above. This folding board was what we did too. I was lucky as a child as we had a spare bedroom which rarely got used by visitors. It was our playroom essentially! Lego building on a Christmas Day afternoon with the Bond film 😂 (less fond memories of my brother attacking & destroying my Lego town with his Space Lego)

[StuLarge]

Did you mock up the Minories track plan?

Original was for TT3, curious if someone has recreated in TT120 yet.

[Moccasin]

1 minute ago, StuLarge said:

Did you mock up the Minories track plan?

Original was for TT3, curious if someone has recreated in TT120 yet.

I did try yes - I even bought 4 quarter curves in radius 3 & 4 for the reverse curve. My modular board is a bit narrow though.

The board was probably a misguided purchase in some respects, as it is a bit small. I think Minories is doable even in Hornby TT120 track. I recall that the geometric discrepancy with the points causes an issue.

Minories might work better space wise now that I’ve added the extra length of board to the terminus layout. I might have a go tomorrow in the software rather than doing the work I planned to catch up on. 

[ModelerXYZ]

My old layout was a split level end to end layout. I had a 9ftx2ft board with another 2ft section width on one end. I had the lower level on DCC, one station with a senic are and a runaround loop, and some sidings and a double run around on the non senic area. The upper level was run on DC. I ran it with a railcar and a tank engine between two stations. anything is possible on an end to end.  

[Moccasin]

I had an operating session with layout on the table this evening and realised that I definitely prefer shunting and general faffing than watching model trains go round in circles.

As before, taking the rolling stock off to be safe from inquisitive feline paws became a shunting puzzle in itself.

Rather than put everything back in the boxes, stock is temporarily stored in a shallow really useful box with bubble wrap layers (might as well re-use the copious amounts sent with Hornby deliveries!)

[taunmarc88]

That’s good to hear that shunting in TT is enjoyable. Are you using DC or DCC? I’m starting to question what I prefer, I find the sounds a bit much when I’m shunting and I forever over shoot where I want to go using the app… that’s definitely my own issue though! I mostly wanted sound for a big loop run but as that idea drifts away I’m wondering if I should go DC for the small steam loco and combine it with my DC class 08. These will not have sound anyway I assume (officially).

[Moccasin]

The sounds can get a bit much I agree, but DCC is still my preferred control method. It makes it much easier to deal with two locomotives on the same track without isolation etc. 

My 08 had a DCC chip installed soon after I bought it, with control swapping between the app for the two large locomotives and Select controller for the 08. I splashed out on the dongle last month and that made it much easier last night. If I get the small steam loco, I can then just get a standard decoder if necessary.