Irishmail Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 2 hours ago, LTSR_NSE said: Hmm and maybe movies could be released to stream for free on the same day they’re released in the cinema… can’t think of any commercial reason why that could be a problem! I would imagine that a pdf version will be made available after the next issue of Hornby Magazine is released (& catalogue issue is withdrawn) - to maximise sales of the catalogue! What has movies got to do with it? No mention was made or reference to that. The TT 1:120 Catalogue is a 'free' giveaway' so should not be any reason to have a download in the members area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 The catalogue is included with the magazine, therefore it is only intended to initially be ‘free’ to purchasers/subscribers - not gen pop! I used movies as an example of a product that is initially only available to a limited paying group (cinema patrons) & only released to gen pop later (once cinema ticket revenue has been maximised.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 I would say not having the range catalogue available (free or retail) from the actual manufacturer is a massive marketing fail. Lazy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 How is doing an ‘exclusive marketing deal’ with a major model railway publication either lazy or a fail? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Because as a manufacturer you should be in control of your marketing not subcontract it to a non associated publication. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishmail Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Just now, Rallymatt said: Because as a manufacturer you should be in control of your marketing not subcontract it to a non associated publication. Agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Thank you for explanation @Rallymatt - not sure I entirely agree, but extremely helpful to be given another perspective. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moccasin Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Surely they are associated though? Hornby Magazine will have a contract to use the manufacturer’s name. With the TT120 club gong digital only, they were unlikely to print anything themselves. The PDF will presumably be available with the next 10 days or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishmail Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 I think Hornby magazine have an agreement or permission from Hornby to use the name, thats all. As far as l'm aware, they are not connected in any way unless thats changed over the last couple of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moccasin Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 Yes but that will require a licence. Point being that they are associated by sharing the name. Hornby have also supported them by providing pre-production models for their TT120 model. So relations are clearly pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic Hornby Username Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 2 minutes ago, Moccasin said: Yes but that will require a licence. Point being that they are associated by sharing the name. Hornby have also supported them by providing pre-production models for their TT120 model. So relations are clearly pretty good. I think the main reason that Key Model World likes to clearly differentiate themselves from Hornby Group, is because of editorial freedom. Sometimes they get attacked (wrongly) for being stooges of the Hornby Group. Those types of attacks tend to go something like, “of course the magazine named ‘Hornby’ gives a good review to Hornby’s latest train.” While in truth, they have complete freedom to criticize any Hornby model they please. I will say that most of the traditional model railway magazines tend to be friendly with the manufacturers. They’ll critique the products, but they won’t be overtly hostile. I think that’s a fair position to take in the model railway world. Someone reporting on large financial institutions or large food corporations should have a more adversarial approach when it comes to their relationship. In the world of model railways, things are smaller and more intimate. The stakes are also smaller and companies in a more financially precarious position. Hornby, Bachmann, and Dapol are not reaping billions in profits. Some like to criticize “big model trains,” when in truth even the largest player is still a small business. No need to be a brute in this industry. But you are right that Hornby Magazine/Key Model World does have a warm relationship with Hornby Group. Besides licensing the name, Key Model World also publishes the yearly Hornby OO range catalogue. They also received exclusive news like the first images of the CAD renders of the KFA wagons. And of course, they were one of the first stockists to officially begin selling Hornby TT:120. They also stocking HM7000 too. So, they clearly do have a good relationship. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted April 20 Share Posted April 20 (edited) From a manufacturers perspective it was a poor decision to not support their own range with a self published brochure from immediately after range launch. Allowing Hornby magazine an add on is one thing but they are only a licensee of the name on a magazine. Ask yourself why Key Model World wanted that name? It’s a strong brand, Hornby should not allow the tail to wag the dog. Lazy, cheap and ultimately flawed by Hornby Management. They really do need to professional marketeers in there ASAP Edited April 20 by Rallymatt Sense 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunmarc88 Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Blimey this has been rumbling on for weeks now! Hornby can (and regularly do) what they like and owe us nothing… I’m with Hornby on this one. If they did print the catalogue and sold it for £5 then that’s no different to buying it with the magazine so just buy the magazine and throw it in the recycling if you genuinely do not enjoy reading modelling mags. As far as posting it online, we’ve all waited months for TT content in the past so what’s a few weeks? They could have done the announcement with no catalogue at all! It’s all on the website to preorder. That’s my two cents anyway, it’s just getting too negative and there’s enough Hornby bashing on YouTube without bringing it here. They’re trying hard to get us what we want and I doubt a catalogue is top of the priority list. (I already have read the comments to disagree with me above so no need to repeat, it seems I am in the minority and that is fine. Just wanted to put a different opinion in on that catalogue). 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dBerriff Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 I found the most useful part of the catalogue to be in the track section. There is a diagram showing the geometry and part numbers. I have not found this on the website but I might have missed it. The actual plans I have not found so useful except for showing how a few of the components relate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moccasin Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 17 minutes ago, taunmarc88 said: Blimey this has been rumbling on for weeks now! Hornby can (and regularly do) what they like and owe us nothing… I’m with Hornby on this one. If they did print the catalogue and sold it for £5 then that’s no different to buying it with the magazine so just buy the magazine and throw it in the recycling if you genuinely do not enjoy reading modelling mags. As far as posting it online, we’ve all waited months for TT content in the past so what’s a few weeks? They could have done the announcement with no catalogue at all! It’s all on the website to preorder. That’s my two cents anyway, it’s just getting too negative and there’s enough Hornby bashing on YouTube without bringing it here. They’re trying hard to get us what we want and I doubt a catalogue is top of the priority list. (I already have read the comments to disagree with me above so no need to repeat, it seems I am in the minority and that is fine. Just wanted to put a different opinion in on that catalogue). Agreed. Distribution of the catalogue would have been quite an expensive, unnecessary hit to their revenue. The initial printed 2022 version was clearly a loss leader to demonstrate their commitment and draw people in. The cost to them this time around will likely be much less. They’re trying a different tack with TT120 and with no tradition, would likely not have wanted to create expectations of them printing an annual catalogue. This way was a good compromise and the track plans and geometry were a nice addition. No doubt both Hornby and Key Publishing will evaluate the success of the initiative and see if it met expectations on both sides. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dBerriff Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 The track I have just ordered must have covered the cost of the included Hornby magazine catalogue many, many times over. For a first TT:120 layout I am finding the Hornby track to be perfectly adequate and I do like the larger radius points when compared to OO. I have used Peco at OO gauge and I am aware of the advantages but for now I just want to get something built and fairly quickly at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunmarc88 Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 @dBerriff Hornby track is great for the quick start. I’m indecisive with track plans and set track has been invaluable. The points as you say are good, they look much more realistic that the OO radius 2 curve ones! @Moccasin I have always loved set track plans from Hornby or Peco, Such a nice touch. There’s nothing stopping those of us with software from replicating something similar and sharing them… not a bad idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 I appreciate the cost implications of print and distribution however an online version is very inexpensive as the artwork is all done. Being critical of mistakes is not same as being negative, I am concerned that Hornby still seem to be rudderless in marketing. I can’t think of another major brand (across all industries) that doesn’t keep their ‘brochure’ up to date and available in some form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete82 Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 Hoping that a tt120 track plans book is in the pipeline as you would think that's quite a crucial part in making people want to build a layout, for people who want something more than the set track and extensions that Hornby have at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moawkwrd Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rallymatt said: I appreciate the cost implications of print and distribution however an online version is very inexpensive as the artwork is all done. Being critical of mistakes is not same as being negative, I am concerned that Hornby still seem to be rudderless in marketing. I can’t think of another major brand (across all industries) that doesn’t keep their ‘brochure’ up to date and available in some form. It would make more sense to invest the time and resources into improving the website in this day and age. Far more convenient and easier to keep up to date. Hornby is struggling at the moment to keep it error free to begin with. This aligns with the move away from annual range releases to announcing things closer to when they’ll arrive as well. A brochure/catalogue is a nice to have throwback to pre-internet times but not a deal breaker really, and if the above is the new way of doing things it’ll be out of date almost immediately anyway. Lastly, I imagine the lack of a PDF at the moment is due to the exclusivity deal with Hornby magazine whilst that issue is still on sale so likely it’ll be added to the website around the start of next month when their June issue comes out. Edited April 21 by moawkwrd 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rallymatt Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 I was suggesting the ‘on-line’ brochure should have gone live as soon as 2024 announcements were made, those wanting a physical brochure had the Hornby Magazine option. I doubt that would have detracted from sales of HM. My understanding is the brochure content is commissioned by Hornby and the files sent to KMWP just to print/print distribute, but it’s done now. The digital presence is absolutely critical these days and as so many have said it isn’t well managed 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobby11 Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 (edited) I think some of you have blown this out of all proportion. I'm pretty certain that Hornby (the manufacturer) will have had an agreement with Hornby (the magazine) that they wouldn't put up a pdf version of the catalogue until they release the next issue of the magazine. The mag will have had many more sales due to this so wouldn't want to see their sales plumet because people went elsewhere. Mountain out of a molehill. Edited April 21 by Hobby1707822967 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunmarc88 Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 @Hobby1707822967 I for one would not have bought this months Hornby mag if the catalogue was not inside. So it worked as a marketing strategy. It was fun trying to get hold of one as early as possible on release day! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishmail Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 1 hour ago, Rallymatt said: I was suggesting the ‘on-line’ brochure should have gone live as soon as 2024 announcements were made, those wanting a physical brochure had the Hornby Magazine option. I doubt that would have detracted from sales of HM. My understanding is the brochure content is commissioned by Hornby and the files sent to KMWP just to print/print distribute, but it’s done now. The digital presence is absolutely critical these days and as so many have said it isn’t well managed That's what I was trying to say yesterday. 😃 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTSR_NSE Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 (edited) Why on earth would Key Model World/Key Publishing go to the trouble & expense of printing something that is freely available on a manufacturer’s website? Yes Hornby could have uploaded the pdf on release day and simply told those interested in a physical copy to take a hike. Instead they’ve opted for an arrangement with a publisher to make a printed version viable with an exclusive deal. Anyone who wants a free digital version only has to wait a short time! (Unfortunately that apparently is an unpleasant feat for those who desire immediate gratification.) Edited April 21 by LTSR_NSE Grammar 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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